hunting is illegal so why do it?

[VicarInaTutuDrankSantasSherry]

i ride. (well, ive just started but....)
i abhor hunting. hate hate hate the cruelty of it. i think that the RSPCA did the right thing here in this prosecution. why do people of a certain class believe they are above the law?

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/david-camerons-local-hunt-fined-26300-for-illegal-fox-hunting-8422915.html

and we spend money (rightly imo) doing this www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-20739585

mad world. why do people feel the need to kill animals in the most inhunane ways possible?

Clearly more farmers support it than not, otherwise hunting would not exist

I'm aware many farmers support it.

OK, I accept there may need to be a need to control Foxes. But why can't that be done by a single skilled marksman/gamekeeper? Why all this pageantry surrounding an animals death.

Why can't a person who can shoot well, kill Foxes and those that enjoy the thrill of the hunt go trail hunting?

Then everyone is happy?

Also, how the feck is drag/trail hunting more damaging to farmers and horses than a traditional hunt? At least a drag/trail hunt would need to ask permission first.

Maybe you have a rubbish local pack then, its normal to ride round a flock of sheep. The sheep shouldn't be stressed unless they are being chased round though..this isn't a pro/anti hunt debate though, that's down to the individual farmers to speak to/ban the hunt, its not for the government to take that decision from the farmers.

I don't necessarily have a pro or against view - the hunts are traditional in my area and created many jobs and had a vital role/ function in the farming community - the hounds disposed of deadstock, older, weaker foxes (the most likely to be caught) were got and so were less likely to pick on easy targets such as new born lambs/ chickens and the hunt had a social role in an often marginalised rural community. My dad didn't/doesn't let them ride across our land but that was more because of the disturbance to livestock, the mess they made and the risks posed by the many public footpaths on our land. The hunting ban was expected to destroy the traditions of the hunts, I remember standing listening to them blow their horns at a county show a few years before the ban came into affect and there being an overwhelming feeling of sadness and brokenness from the people around that it was all going to be coming to an end. But...it actually made them stronger with higher than ever memberships. Perhaps this was because people who had previously been deterred by not really wanting to see foxes ripped to bits now fancied going along for the fantastic ride. Frankly with or without fox it doesn't really float my boat.

A few years a long the way and last year for the first year for a long time (18 - 20 years) we started losing stock to foxes. There is no way of saying if this has anything to do with the hunting ban but certainly the local farming community is a lot more aware currently of foxes as pests than they were previously - the result... a lot more foxes getting shot! If you have ever seen the mess a fox can make of a chicken shed or of a new born lamb then you may think differently about them.

Rubbish local pack in several areas? Maybe so ... why were they all rubbish? And where were the 'good' ones you speak of?

This is a pro/anti hunt thing, btw: you may think it's fine to be inconsiderate around livestock unless the farmer bans you, but most people would be disgusted with themselves if they'd done that.

I don't want to see a government ban - I'd like to see people realize they should grow the hell up.

Itsall, I did explain that foxes are nocturnal and skulk in hedges and woods etc so are hard to shoot. Lamping is a very efficient way to kill foxes but is not suitable for much of the UK due to the terrain and over crowded nature of the land eg people on footpaths- rifle bullets can travel a mile. Also, I am passionate about hunting and think it works far better because it IS less efficient re numbers than shooting but more efficient at killing the less healthy animals. It also respects a closed season so the young arent killed. I just think hunting is a very good thing. Why ban it if it aint broke?

If Foxes are skulking in hedges and woods they aren't doing in any harm. If they are coming for your chickens surely not that hard to stay up and shoot them?

When did I say it was OK to be inconsiderate of livestock!?! I have said I am a farmer, I would be cross if my livestock was injured! I would expect an apology and for the offender to be given a b*llocking.

Itsall foxes don't always march up to your chickens and wait to be shot, they are hard to shoot even for experienced marksmen and very few farmers have a rifle suitable for fox, they mostly have a 12 bore shotgun which makes a mess and wakes the neighbours up!!

Anyway, got to go and tuck my horses up for the night and kiss their noses now!

tell me then pony what the difference is between your sport, and the sport of badger baiting.

you say 9 times out of 10 the hunt is unsuccessful so it cant be just about population control.

Do you believe that anyone should have the right to kill animals for the thrill of it? the spectacle?

But surely that is the farmers issue to deal with. Either by securing livestock, or ensuring that he is able to humanely dispatch any Foxes.

On what planet is is necessary to make a game out of killing an animal. Even if hunting was an efficient and humane way of killing Foxes, what sort of person would want to go along just to see a fox being killed.

And if it's not about the killing then go on a drag/trail hunt.

Well I'm far less concerned about people on horseback hunting and killing a fox than I am about gun members with a couple of pit bulls hunting people on their estates who have upset them so they can beat them up, stab them or fire off a gun. Know full well how I would prefer to use some adrenalin.

The RSPCA is now sadly a political organisation. And it was desperate to score political points by bringing a civil case against the Heythrop Hunt as it's in Cameron's constituency. This civil case cost the RSPCA in excess of £300k, which of course could have been put to good use to help stop people who are knowingly abusing animals, in the most awful conditions.

I sit on the fence (the splinters are painful) about hunting. I am a farmer's daughter and I used to see my father stand for hours, stock still, trying to catch sight of and shoot dead the pesky fox that had slain 22 chickens the previous night. Shooting foxes is a very, very slow process. I used to have my own horses and would drag hunt them. But I never went fox hunting. Am not sure why. I don't like to see cruelty to any animal, perhaps that is why. So when I was living near Sienna, I was never interested in going to see the Palio, or when I have been in Spain, I have never been interested seeing a bull fight. One thing I will say is that all of the horses and hounds I have ever seen hunting have been in tiptop condition

I live down the road from Heythrop and I smiled to see the hunt out at least twice recently (the last time being just a couple of days ago).

Agh must go and do the horses! Vicar, its like comparing chalk and cheese, one is hunting, one is baiting!?!? They are different things entirely!? Itsall how do you secure free range chickens in the daytime? Sheep outside on 100s of acres, on fells? I can't understand how you have read all the posts above and still not understand that its not about the kill anymore than meat eaters enjoying an animal having died for them?? Hunting is a hard thing to explain though I guess. Maybe have a day out with a pack and see what you think?

The RSPCA has lost sight of its original purpose - spending £300k on this case is just the latest example, when around the country they are closing rescue centres and relying on foster homes instead

Round here we have travellers tethering horses at the side of busy main roads or on scraps of ground on industrial estates with only periodic access to water and feed. This practice is in contravention of the five freedoms which the RSPCA purports to believe in - but you will not see them challenge the travelling community on this

In halal and kosher slaughterhouses up and down the this country, animals are killed by having their throats cut, with no pre-stunning to render them unconscious prior to the cut. This would be illegal in any other slaughterhouse in the country and is grotesque - chickens, for example, are hung by their feet on a conveyor and trundle to their fate one by one. You will not see the RSPCA stand up and protest that this is gross cruelty in the name of a religious practice

This prosecution had nothing to do with animal welfare and everything to do with politicking. Despite the fact it is illegal to use charitable funds for political purposes. David Grant, the new top bod, has a PR background - no surprise then that his kill here is in Cameron's constituency

And the RSPCA are cutting dozens and dozens of jobs and losing money all the time, yet wanted to spend the money they raise, mostly from money left in wills, on a stupid prosecution to make a point. Bet that really helps all the poor secretaries and administrators and inspectors who have lost their jobs sleep at night.

i am loving riding, and i will be getting my own horse, but i would no more go along to a hunt than....

well. i dont know but i couldnt. i find the whole thing distasteful in the extreme.

im not understanding the argument as to why badger baiting is different to fox hunting - both are done for sport. what about hare coursing then? how are any of these blood sports different from fox hunting? i really dont understand where any difference lays.
an animal is pursued and killed for the pleasure of those pursuing it. It does not sit comfortably with me, and hunting foxes with dogs is illegal. see here

im surprised you admit doing this illegal activity so openly pony. But it shows that some people have no respect for the laws of the land and believe that they are entitled to break the law because it suits them.

What the Heythrop were doing is illegal. They were arrogant enough to think they were above the law. The RSPCA did us all a favour by making it clear they aren't - and that being bessie mates with Cameron isn't a free pass to flout the law. (As Rebekah and Coulson have also discovered.)

The CPS and police should refund the money it cost the RSPCA to bring this case - if the authorities had been doing their job, it wouldn't have been left to a charity to uphold the law.

Talking about the RSPCA's political influences is beside the point in this debate, they've still prosecuted someone breaking the law.

Vicar, your horse will LOVE to hunt, I think it's a shame really that so many horses don't experience something so natural and thrilling to them. Hunting is about the chase, a natural thing that humans have always done for food and sport. Foxes have always been hunted by man or wolves. Baiting is about a trapped animal being goaded and attacked, there is no comparison at all. Truly, there is nothing distasteful about hunting, quite the opposite, it is very good for the soul. As I said before I have no respect for this law because it was made against all the principles of liberal democracy, ie that law must be made with the CONSENT of those it effects, which the hunting act does not. It was made for cynical reasons and forced though unconstitutionally by use of the parliament act so I do not consider it legitimate. I have not said I am above the law; I have said that I would be prepared to take the consequences of breaking it to stand up for my beliefs.

No, the horse wouldnt love to hunt. It would love to run alongside other horses in the countryside.

'Truly, there is nothing distasteful about hunting, quite the opposite, it is very good for the soul"
This is THE most astounding comment I've ever read on mumsnet. What planet are you on. How is another animal getting destroyed in a barbaric way, its life ended your enjoyment good for the soul and anything BUT distasteful?

And in your last comment you are showing that you think yourself above the law if you think you have the right to break it.

I don't even know why I'm engaging with you, you're unbelievable.

'Vicar, your horse will LOVE to hunt, I think it's a shame really that so many horses don't experience something so natural and thrilling to them. Hunting is about the chase, a natural thing that humans have always done for food and sport.'

I hate to break it to you, but horses are not humans. Nor are they meat eaters. So no, not natural to them.