How wicked of you, David Cameron.

[vivizone]

So we're going back to Victorian notions of the 'undeserving poor'. Time to re-open the workhouses.

How this man and his cronies are getting away with so much damage done to the ordinary man and woman, I do not know.

Help us all.

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/nov/09/deserving-families-council-housing-priority

"NOBODY has ever even hinted, never mind actually suggested, that carers and/or their disabled children should be losing benefits or care provision. NOBODY!"

Except the govt.

To back Glitter, I have had euthanasia suggested to me in front of my boys by a relation, one of the boys fully understood what he was saying.

So it IS out there, and the justification was 'we simply can't afford disability'.

Funnily enough I could rant a lot about how I would not descend to the levels he does but am going to sit on my hands, if it's not been said for 18 years it can stay unsaid now.

There are solutions to council housing: I was staying in a very cleverly designed apartment that was the size of the ground floor of my parent's council house (I could explain why they have one but it's not actually my job to justify them as adults) and slept six of us. It was not wonderful but adequate for a comfortable fulfilling life and certainly if we were homeless would be enough. both enough to accommodate us for ever if needed, and equally enough to motivate us to move on if possible.

So you could change say 50% of existing stock to this model as it became available and house far more people (retaining some housing for people who need more space, you could not for example use a wheelchair in that apartment).

It's not even theoretical, it's policy.
See... apart from saying they don't agree people here do not provide a solution. The costs aren't going away yet all they say is we can't afford it.

So what's supposed to happen?

Right must go- got enough on for 20 people today!

Just as a note we as a family would get priority under that system. So by arguing against it I am stabbing myself in the foot, as private tenants we could end up in the homelessness system any time. But I still don't think we should get priority over a single parent whose dh chucked her out just because dh works, or if I volunteered (something i'd like to do but can;t find a placement as the university pays charities to secure placements for students and it's only a small town: also charities get fed up with me rapidly when I need time off for appts and the like and there's nowt iI can do about that).

I wonder what would happen to Mum under this system: she cares for Grandad but does not claim CA as she shares his FT care with her sister and a carer who goes in 30 minutes a day. She cannot volunteer as she is on call for Grandad, who is 93, and disabled.

hijacked tough
perhaps that is because disabled people are big hardest hit by the cuts.
carers are being expected ot live on fresh air.
oh by the way I don't even think of people in other countries when I am doing all the care for my nearly adult dd. I am to busy tying to keep sane and pay the bills.

' I can understand how carers and disabled people in this country feel at the same time as understanding how others I come across in other countries feel, and it's understanding of more than one issue that shapes my opinion.'

This is the UK. It is not other countries. It's our country. I'm from another country myself. My grandparents were from still a different country. I don't live in that country, I live here. There is no point comparing this country to that one because, well, it's not the same.

I'm not comparing countries. I'm comparing personal attitudes to the same situation.

Why, Outraged? What purpose does it serve? To introduced thresholds of bowing and scraping in order to qualify for benefits? Want people in receipt of them to wear tshirts reading, 'I'm an entitled scrounger'?

How terrible, uppity Carers of disabled children defending themselves because no other bugger will. The cheek of it!

I didn't read the entire thread and so have no idea when it became disability based. I suspect though it will have been in response to some or other post which offended. Most Carers are facing enough difficulties to become a tad irritated by anything which denigrates then. It's not about derailing the thread or taking it over ....it's about telling how it is.

"same situation"
it isn't the same situation though.
we have a system that is supposed to support the most vulnerable. it is being cut.
why should I be grateful that my dd is disabled.

Giving my thoughts on a subject on an Internet forum doesn't serve any purpose, I didn't know it was supposed to. It's just a way to put off doing the hoovering before I go to work.

The rest of your post is exactly what contributes to others thinking that certain opinions held by certain posters are 'hysterical'.

Nobody has said you should be grateful that your daughter has a disability. You are making that up.

Making what up, Outraged? My daughter doesn't have a disability and my other daughter is dead.

Outraged: The thing that makes these threads turn out like this is simple, people say what they think and others do the same. If that is a problem and always supposing you are not just a troll, either do not talk to people who hold different views as you seem to resent some of those views. Or go and look at independent sources, plenty of them. And then either change your view or form a more developed view that does not revolve around what you THINK people should feel.

How am I coming across as if I resent people's views? Genuine question. People are free to think what they like, including me, and I get the feeling my views are very much resented despite the fact that I haven't said anything offensive. I talk to people who have different views to mine in exactly the same way as those people talk to me, that's what people do on forums.

Expat, making it up in that no one has told threesocks that she should be grateful that her daughter has a disability, while she is implying that they have.

but I have been told I should be grateful for the pittance we get.
for the small amount of support we get.
so if I have to be grateful for that then I would have to be grateful for my dd's disability.which I am not. that is why I cannot be grateful for something that she should get and is entitled too.

I see those two things as different threesocks. I think it is possible to be grateful that you can feed and clothe and house yourself and your disabled child while at the same time being resentful of the disability.

I'm not happy that my child has to live with Aspergers, but I'm grateful that his teachers are understanding and supportive. The fact that they should be, and the fact that my son is entitled and deserving of that support doesn't come into it.

I'm really not trying to tell people how they should feel here. Everyone's own feelings are valid and I respect that. It just so happens that some of the happiest people I know are the ones in some of the most difficult circumstances, yet they have a healthy attitude towards their hardships. On the flip side, some of the most unhappy people I know are those suffering with illness or disability, but I don't think a medical condition comes with a pre determined level of happiness. That is down to lots of factors.

"NOBODY has ever even hinted, never mind actually suggested, that carers and/or their disabled children should be losing benefits or care provision. NOBODY!"

The govt has said it will cut the number of people receiving DLA by at least 20%.

That 20% will lose more than just money: they will cease to be designated disabled. So they will be subject to, for example, benefit caps (even if they're receiving ESA/Incapacity Benefit). They may lose their place on housing priority lists. Because they're now "not disabled."

What you're missing in your, er, hysterical shrieking, Sunflower, is that yes, lots of people could do with help. But there's a difference between people for whom help would be "nice", and those who without it will deteriorate and die.

If people from the proposed new priority groups, like armed forces leavers or library volunteers, are in similar need, they are already entitled to priority housing. (But like everyone else may not get it because of the council housing sell off.)

Anyone wondering what life will look like if we keep going down this road, should watch 'Cathy come home'

"Where does it say that they are assuming poor people don't know how to be good tenants?

If they are good tenants, then they will fit into the last suggested category."

Homeless people will not fit into this category if they've never been a tenant.
This could be because they have never lived in a rented property (previously been homeless / lived at parents / been a home owner).

It could be because although they've lived in rented accommodation for years, their name wasn't actually on the tenancy - their partner's / flatmate's was.

None of the people I've mentioned would have proof that they were a good tenant. It's a catch 22, you have to have had the opportunity to be a tenant, officially, to prove you are a good tenant.

NOBODY has ever even hinted, never mind actually suggested, that carers and/or their disabled children should be losing benefits or care provision. NOBODY

Yeah NOBODY except the government!

Have you actually read our posts on this thread?

Oh, yes. I've read the entire thread.
That's how I know that nobody on this forum ? which is what I was obviously referring to ? has suggested gas chambers, workhouses, gutters, enforced eviction etc. etc. other than posters such as yourself Amberleaf

The thread was started to discuss a briefing regarding prioritizing homeless people. (actually, it was started to paste David Cameron again but hey-ho). It didn't mention disabled people/ carers in any shape or form and yet, before we'd even reached page 2, all discussion was quashed unless it was related to disabled peoples issues.
Don't you think the parents of hopelessly dependent drug addicts despair and fear for their children's lives just as much as you fear for your children? Don't you think very young teenage girls need support and guidance if they fall pregnant? Don't you think servicemen, damaged by their experiences in the defence of us all (whether you agree with the fact that they are there in the first place or not) need to be given a hand up too? Note I said too, not instead of.

Yes, all of these things are self inflicted, but they are still human beings in desperate need of help, and people fear for them just as you fear for your vulnerable.
This is not Top Trumps. Please let people discuss other issues too. It does not relegate you down any kind of "league table" to acknowledge that other catagories of people deserve help too.

Oh please, don't start talking about 'trumps' because that is just insulting.

You and outraged steered the discussion towards why it always ends up about people with disabilities and their carers and people responded, that's how the conversation digressed so much.

It is people on this forum that made that comment and we answered it, if you don't want to hear it dont ask and dont think you can shout people down.

Outraged - not everyone can be a priority for housing. And even when you are it is still difficult to get.

This government clearly have plans to change the rules so that instead of the most vulnerable people being at the top of the housing list, that will instead be comprised of people who the government prefer because they consider them morally superior. It is disgusting. There are very few people who don't work because they can't be bothered to.

Tories only see what they want to see. So they ignore the problem of what will happen to disabled people and instead concentrate on spreading propaganda about lazy people who cannot be bothered to work, whose 'curtains are closed' when their working neighbours are going out to work in the morning.