IDS suggestion if capping child related benefits at two children.

[JakeBullet]

Way do other people think about this?

I am assuming it means that new claimants after a set date IF it ever comes to fruition.

I am broadly in favour of this...not because I don't agree with child related benefits, I am receipt of them myself but because we appear to have a dwindling pot.

On the other hand IDS makes the mistake of thinking that everyone who claims for more than two children has always been a welfare recipient which is not the case....many families have gone under with the current recession and have children they thought they had planned for financially.

Or is this more propaganda?

I know we have had a lot of these threads too so sorry for starting another one but was interested to see there was not a thread about it.

And Xenia the feminist continues to prove that in her eyes feminism is only for rich women.
Xenia you are no feminist. You are a bigot.
And you think that the rich should be paid more for having extra living proof that they are having or have had sex without contraception.
Hmmm theres a name for that.

I suggested that the utilitarian aim is to ensure women like I am have a lot of children and children of those in 3rd generation benefits claimants families do not.

We do this all the time. We have an immigration system which allows those in who have rare skills we need. I am not suggesting anything strange at all. In fact in my lifetime (just) we had a child tax allowance for each child.

I am not saying I am in favour as I would rather have no allowances at all and simple taxes and one capped flat tax for all and then people can choose whether ot have children based on what they can afford.

Yes but what if it is too late?

What if you're already pregnant, when you become unable to work? Or your arse of a partner leaves? Or starts hitting you.

I mean if you plan to have babies on your own that's a bit different but I don't think that many people actually DO, because it's so bloody hard. I'm sure there are some.
But many more end up on their own, or lose their job, or whatever when it's already too late and coudn't have been easily predicted.

Xenia you often say on here that the country is short of money and now you say that the country (Gov) should give you and other "people" like you a tax break for having sex without contraception.
You are so blinded by your own greed and selfishness that you cant see you are contradicting yourself.
Ive also seen you say in previous posts that you are in debt.
Maybe this is where a lot of your bitterness comes from.

Probably not me. I've no menopause signs but I'm 50 and I will not be expecting the state to fund IVF when I turn 60 so I can have my triplets....

My position is no tax breaks. However the point that we need people like I am to have children not the poor, in the best interests of the nation of course stands.

I don't feel bitter at all. I'm very lucky and happy.

Well yes I suppose you could say I am the poorest person on here because I have the biggest debts (as far as I know) but it is manageable. As Lord Young said we have never had it so good - interest rates are tiny tiny amounts compared to the 12% many of us have paid on mortgage over the last 30 years. It is the best time in English history to have mortgage debt. I do appreciate the irony of this - that someone with a lot of debt hugely benefits from 0.5% base rate where as all those pensioners living on interest on budiling society savings who survived WWII, fought and now live on savings suffer. The Governmentin 2001 shoudl never have interfered in the free markt - it has fixed interest rates. It has not let the market decide. All this market interference is never good.

Xenia wow!

But stop and think where did all these wealthy well educated people come from? - The Jews banished from their homes and settled in this country, The Kenyans thrown out of Africa in the 70's, Windrush - all these poor people who came here and went on to produce well educated children, who have gone on to build huge businesses. Employing people and contributing vast amounts to the Treasury.

We all have a place in this world Xenia - these children born to a family, living in poverty, could be our next great Surgeon, Doctor or Peacemaker and Diplomat. The next brave soldier laying down his life to save your arse, the next caring nurse you may employ in your old age to look after you. We all count.

Yes, I certainly value human life etc and I am huge supporter of immigration. Gene mixing too is very good for our species. I see recent research shows people other than those from Africa are about 2 - 3% Neanderthal genes as we co-existed with them for a good few years too.

However the children of those who have never worked tend not to do too well. Now that does not mean they should not get a state education and the chance to do well but most people dont' want a system where the non working poor can have big families at the expense of others.

In reality most of those on benefits don't have huge families so I am not sure how big an issue it really is.

There are plenty of higher rate taxpayers progeny who are thick as pig shit and can't even function independently, let alone do the higher paid jobs that require dedication and intellect.

My search for statistics failed and I just found this and I would not support forced birth control.
www.govyou.co.uk/restrict-family-size-unless-parents-can-provide/ but I am not against economic sanctions.

Wow Xenia Ive come across inverted snobbery before but never inverted racism. For me this is a new one!

XeniaThu 13-Sep-12 08:48:58
SOme people will always be poor and make up excuses and say impossible. Others get on with things and improve their lives. I hope we can remain a country where there are sufficient people with the personal values to make something better of themselves whatever it take. I accept and have said on iother threads that there is a problem once you start earning in a new business in coming off benefits althoug the new single benefit is going to make it easier - there was a letter in the Times about it last week - you can work for a year to get your self employed business going so things are imjproving thanks to this Government.

Just look at those who have moved here from abroad to see what is possible. I advise them all the time. They are wonderful, hard workers etc I hvae so much more in common with them than the fat lumpen negative white benefit claimants of the UK

Yep. Inverted racism.

If you're saying I'm fat, lumpen and negative because I am white and I claim some benefits, I think that's fucking rude.

Is that what you're saying?

No thats what Xenia said in a previous thread.
It was a copy and paste.

Another poster on here was shocked at a post she wrote on page 1 so i copied and pasted this to demonstrate how prejudiced she is as well as the fact that shes an inverted racist.

If Xenia is in debt she can sell the Pacific Island she owns surely!

What happens to the self supporting family with several children who have paid their taxes and not claimed beneift up to now, but who find themselves with no choice because the rug has been pulled from under them.

And if everyone is to aspire to earn super high salaries in "good jobs" and who is to serve us in the shops, drive our buses, clean our sewers ......

Sorry Darkest, I was talking to Xenia - I know it was a C&P, not to worry.

Im sorry too Eds. I just get so gobsmacked at Xenias attitude.

And if everyone is to aspire to earn super high salaries in "good jobs" and who is to serve us in the shops, drive our buses, clean our sewers ......

I think people like Xenia have workfare in mind for those jobs amothers.

Hang on - 60% of British people are over weight so no one can challenge me on the fat point can they? So I am totally right there and the poorer you are the fatter you are unless you still eat your diet from abroad in which case you remain healthy. So the statistics support me.

Secondly those who emigrate are get up and go and hard workers whether Polish, Indian, Chinese or Australian. That is not a racist comment. We all know it is working class white boys who do worst in UK schools.

I am certainly not suggesting there are no non working lazy not English benefit claimants either - there are.

Yes fabulous idea. Alongwith the changes for the disabled benefits I can see that this another great idea concocted by those fuckwits in an attempt to further shit on the most vulnerable members of society. Making the poor poorer is a great way of reducing the deficit. They are becoming more like the Nazi's each day they are in power. Bastards. Stupid idea.

Xenia you are one of the very few Mumsnetters that render me speechless. And not in a good way.

XeniaFri 26-Oct-12 20:24:55

Hang on - 60% of British people are over weight so no one can challenge me on the fat point can they? So I am totally right there and the poorer you are the fatter you are unless you still eat your diet from abroad in which case you remain healthy. So the statistics support me.

Like Ken Clarke and Eric Pickles you mean! Youve posted this bollocks before Xenia.

You dont like poor people You dont like fat people.
We get it ok.
How do you explain Clarke and Pickles then.
I know poor people who are so thin because they cant afford to eat.
And surely if it were true that only poor people are overweight (which it isnt) then surely some of the blame has to rest with the food banks you have so sung the praise of in previous threads.
You are the most hateful person that i have seen frequenting these boards.
You have no right to call yourself a feminist.

I am old enough to remember Keith Joseph (Cabinet Minster in Tory Govt) in 1974 saying that the only way to stop the cycle of deprivation was for classes 4 and 5 (designated by the Registrar General's analysis of class) should be stopped from breeding. He didn't say how this was to be accomplished. (Classes 4 and 5 were (and maybe still are) unskilled blue collar workers.

I think Xenia who I have never had the "pleasure" of coming across before is like a caricature of herself. She seems to be enjoying herself spouting her "views" which she claims to be facts. I can't take her seriously but I think her outrageous comments are dominating the debate. Anyone up for continuing the debate and ignoring her posts?

Im happy to ignore her posts from now on.

60% of British people are overweight are they? Well who knew.

So no one cal challenge you on the 'fact' that all poor people are fat.

How does that even stand up to basic logic Xenia?

Can I challenge you even if I appear in person in front of you, underweight and not particularly lazy? I guess you would just pretend I don't exist.