Are you in favour of Scotland leaving the UK?

[LadyMaryCreepyCrawley]

Lucky bastards!

The argument about the free prescriptions is that the evidence is apparently (I've not seen it) that it actually saves money over time. People who needed prescriptions were not choosing not to get them and then presenting later on with more expensive-to-treat symptoms.

And because we have a separate NHS we were able to analyse that and come to the conclusion it would be cheaper long term for the overall health budget if prescriptions were free.

Like Lemon, I am English, living in Scotland. I love it here, and hope to stay here for many, many years - but the thought of Independance worries me a lot. I cannot see the benefit, in international terms, of leaving a bigger country, with political and economic clout that we share as part of that country, to become a much smaller with correspondingly much less clout internationally.

I'm afraid I don't trust Alex Salmond - I think he talks a good fight, but it is a lot easier to say what you would do if you were the PM/First Minister of an independant Scotland, and what you could achieve for your country, than it is to do these things in reality. To be honest, the same could be said to apply to any politician who dreams of leading an Independant Scotland.

I also believe that the legal advice that Alec Salmond has received, has said that Scotland wouldn't automatically remain part of the EU, and that if Scotland were to want to be in the EU, it would have to apply as a new country, and would have to fulfil all the economic criteria, which it might well struggle to do (as I understand it). Also, as a new member country of the EU, Scotland would have to take on the Euro, so could not, as the Yes info page linked to earlier claims, keep the pound. If the legal advisers had told Alec Salmond that an independant Scotland would automatically remain part of the EU (unless it chose to opt out), I firmly believe he would have made a big noise, publically, about this.

For what it's worth I don't think it will happen. Or else it will be a very very watered down version which won't make any difference. It's an interesting point - whether or not Scotland will remain part of the EU or will have to apply again as a new country. And if they do have to apply will they have to adopt the Euro. Can't see that working very well. But maybe they would be entitled to EU subsidies so perhaps it would be an advantage.

Wow pinotnoirprincess. Alex Salmond should hire you.

Enjoy 'concentrating on your own for a change'...

I think that we English, or we remaining Brits would welcome the opportunity to shut our borders and concentrate on getting our own act together for a few decades

Wow, just wow.

They are doing it to be on an equal footing with the rest of the world, that governs their own affairs. So it's a more internationalist perspective than you give it credit for.

I don't really understand how you think the UK hasn't concentrated on its own (or England, as you mentioned, for that matter).

Will there still be a "UK" if Scotland goes??

Yes anice. Although the remaining members should also be entitled to referenda to decide on their involvement.

I cannot see the benefit, in international terms, of leaving a bigger country, with political and economic clout that we share as part of that country, to become a much smaller with correspondingly much less clout internationally

When the United Nations was formed there were just over 50 independent countries in the world. Today, that figure has risen to almost 200.

Scotland?s population places us at exactly the mid-point among those countries: half the countries in the world are bigger ? and half are smaller ? than Scotland.

Of the 10 countries that joined the European Union in 2004, most became independent after 1990, and Scotland is bigger than six of them. All of these nations now have a seat at the EU top table, a right Scotland should enjoy too.

According to the International Monetary Fund our near neighbours Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Ireland (all of a similar size to Scotland) are wealthier than the UK ? Scotland has as much going for it as any of these nations, except being independent.
www.yesscotland.net/too_small_to_be_independent

The EU question is a tricky one. A major issue is that Scots are already EU citizens. If Scotland were not admitted to the EU that would mean revoking the citizenship of millions of people, and I think that is a pretty big deal.

With regard to euro vs pound, nobody disputes that Scotland would join the Euro when they are ready and when they meet the criteria. Until then the most sensible thing is to retain the pound.

I am Scottish & am unconvinced by any pro independence arguements I have heard so far. The debate on this issue in the media & elsewhere has concentrated on emotional & cultural arguements & nothing about the economic arguements. At its most basic no one has yet been able to explain to me how living in an independant Scotland will make life better for me & my family & the rest of Scotland & if doesn't then frankly what is the point?
Any settlement between Scotland & the rest of the UK would be a long drawn out process & I doubt that Scottish politicians would be able to argue their case from a strong position as they are unlikely to get the same access to information as the government of the remaining rump of the UK.
On the EC question it would not just be Scotland's membership of the EU which would be open to doubt but that of the rest of the UK also.
I get the impression that many people think that Scots are anti English, of course there are a few idiots who are ( they are probably anti everyone else as well)but most Scots accept & like the English, Welsh & Irish as much as their own.

The debate on this issue in the media & elsewhere has concentrated on emotional & cultural arguements & nothing about the economic arguements

A few links to get you started :-)

www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/4341-a-unionist-lexicon-an-a-z-of-unionist-scare-stories-myths-and-misinformation

www.yesscotland.net/get_the_facts

fullfact.org/factchecks/Simon_Heffer_Daily_Telegraph_Barnett_formula_Scottish_spending_settlement-2693

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-18364699

m.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/mar/07/scotland-spending-data-independence?cat=news&type=article

www.guardian.co.uk/politics/reality-check-with-polly-curtis/2012/jan/11/would-an-independent-scotland-join-the-euro

www.guardian.co.uk/politics/reality-check-with-polly-curtis/2012/feb/27/scotland-independent-debt-deficit

Maybe England needs devolution too? Perhaps true federalism is the way ahead, with Westminster only dealing with the reserved issues for ALL of the UK.

I think people are forgetting that voting for independence is not voting for Alec Salmond! Imagine how liberating it would be for the other parties to be able to concentrate fully on what they propose to offer for a fully independent Scotland, rather than being hamstrung by having to look over their shoulder to their Party HQs in London and make sure they spout a Unionist line.

Truth is, Scotland has voted in a noticeably different political direction since the middle of the last century but because we are a minority within the UK, we keep getting lumbered with governments we didn't actually vote for.

www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/rp2003/rp03-059.pdf

And while you can say this about FPTP democracy in the UK in general, I would argue that it is democratic good practice to try and go for a system that most closely represents what most people want, which for Scotland appears to mean bailing out.

No, pinotnoirprincess - your second post there actually made your view a lot clearer. I don't want the rest of the UK to e upset we're going, I'd like to see friendly relationships between equal neighbours, including England - good points made beveridge.

I wish they would. Sick of hearing them whinge about being hard done to.

Haha! Lovely stuff cozy! Have a nice day :)

Truth is, Scotland has voted in a noticeably different political direction since the middle of the last century but because we are a minority within the UK, we keep getting lumbered with governments we didn't actually vote for

Great illustration of this:
www.flickr.com/photos/potatojunkie/8087151692/sizes/o/

There's no way Scotland contributes more than it takes out. Look at the amount of public sector jobs that are in Scotland. Glasgow would be utterly fucked if they were to go, as they would if Scotland exited the UK.

I think there would be a swing to the right in Scotland if they got independence and it was clear that Scottish people were paying for all public expenditure.

I am Scottish.

Scotland joined with England to form the UK when Scotland's finances were in dire straits.

I think some of the Scottish think that in leaving they will be leaving the debt behind. But its like a marriage and just by walking out, it doesn't mean that there won't be a divvy up of the marital assets AND the liabilities.

Comparisons with denmark etc would be a lot more valid if we could turn the clock back several hundred years. It is wrong to pretend that a nation of c. 5 million people, with a vast heavy industry heritage (I am thinking of Glasgow, Dundee and much of the central belt) could eb anythign like Denmark in a couple fo years time.

Would those living from cradle to grave on benefits be willing to work to build this new country? I think not.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine That's much better than my link!

I think there would be a swing to the right in Scotland if they got independence and it was clear that Scottish people were paying for all public expenditure

Not a problem. The only chance the Conservatives have in Scotland is to become independent from Westminster.

Look at the amount of public sector jobs that are in Scotland. Glasgow would be utterly fucked if they were to go, as they would if Scotland exited the UK

Genuinely don't understand this statement. Surely under independence Scotland would lose some jobs that previously reported to Westminster, and gain some from the workload that would be shifted to Edinburgh?