4 sisters returned to Italian father after their Australian Mum took them to Australia.....dragged kicking and screaming onto the plane.

[AmberLeaf]

Apparently the girls aged between 9-15 are dual citizens.

Link sorry its the DM.

Do they not take the childs view into account in Australia?

Wow, the more stuff I'm following up after reading on here - the more I'm thinking they'd be better off if the mother didn't visit them.

I have said this on here before (and got slated for it by some), but I was the first child in the UK to use a new ruling that children could have their own legal representation, during a custody battle.

I find the pictures and the whole story very upsetting. To have no one listen to your wishes, is awful and I hope that all 4 girls do eventually get to have their say, and live where they want.

I agree though that the mother made this situation difficult by taking them away in the first place.

At the end of the day, children's views count, and if my children decided they wanted to live with my ex, i'd be heartbroken, but I would respect their wishes and do my best to ensure that they never felt like they had done something wrong.

LT my point is there are plenty of attempts on this thread to paint Italian life as some sort of hell hole.

So if this mother had voluntarily got onto a plane with her 4 children to return to Italy would the police have still dragged them off into police cars?

The blame isn't 100% with one parent, but the law was.

I didn't say the law was but yes the society is, this is my own experience of Italy and Italian men.

I'm pregnant and been a nanny to many many children often 24/7 so yes I know what a children's tantrum looks like and even what a teenagers tantrum looks like and this wasnt one of them. That was young girls and women screaming in terror being dragged around and man handled by grown armed men, such a shameful incident.
I do believe the whole case will badly effect them but I also think that experience alone will be very traumatising. I'm honestly horrified anyone could think they will be ok in a few days.

LittleBairn, I didn't say they'd be ok in a few days, although I suspect the younger two were probably thrilled to get "home" and see all their old friends and family after two years of being away, to be in their old rooms, to be kissed by grandparents. As the years pass, their memory of this event will be the family reunion in Italy (Tuscany?) among joyous family, and of the happiness and love they encountered after the ordeal. And the impact of the negative part will fade. Kids are like that.
The older two...I suspect will be more difficult although, again, not for the reason you indicate, although I appreciate where your heart is. They have been primed by their mum and are probably coming to Italy on a mission to show the world how horrible dad is. They will try to make life miserable. This will be a challenge for the dad's family. I can't imagine how they will respond. I hope he gets counseling for himself and for them.
How will the older two look back on this? Again, I think they will see themselves caught in a war between their parents and used as pawns by their mum. My guess is that the enduring scar will be their conflicted emotions over their attachment to her as a parent and resentment for being put through this.

one other thing that I think everyone is overlooking: love can conquer many things. do not forget that these girls are about to be surrounded by the joy of reunion with family and friends they have not seen for years.
the father could have walked away from them two years ago, gotten married again, and never had a financial worry about his daughters to consider. instead he went broke tying to get them home, and now has them as a financial burden. (he works; mum was getting a government check and child support.) to me, that is the sign of a parent who loves their children a lot.

with a lot of love, you can overcome anything.

Oh and btw just for the record, when media reports, as it is on 7 now, that the mother says she is "hated there" (Italy, specifically Pontassieve)... after she left the sect and her husband, she was ostracised by the community and would be on the phone in tears saying, i cant even go to church because they say that leaving the 'sect' i am now 'evil' and can not enter. There were many places she wasnt welcomed. A university education is also considered akin to embracing Satan because it means one must adopt principals of reason and logic, which are considered evil. One's purpose in the world is exclusively expected to be to preach door to door and bring new families into the Community for indoctrination, a 10 year indoctrination

That's from the Kids with voices facebook page, written by [I think] the girls maternal grandmother.

Anyone know anymore about this 'sect' ?

LittleBairn, forgot to say congratulatoins!!!

I am glad that Redsilk found the statistics of children's custody to Italy. I wouldn't have been able to give the exact %, but to be sure usually it is mothers who are awarded sole custody.

I find it always rather disturbing to read MN comments on Italy. Most are uninformed, prejudiced and bang on racist. Well done.

AmberLeaf, the mother's "sect" argument was covered months ago, I think, when there was also reporting of the false accusations of violence. turned out the sect is called "Catholocism," which has a couple millennia of roots in Italy. if I recall, the father says he is Catholic but not religious. this was the only reference I found to the mum saying she went to church.
I just found Pontassieve. it is near Florence, so I was right about this being Tuscany. (yeah, poor girls... they may be forced to eat good food, too, or exposed to Rennaissance art... how can I get kidnapped to Florence?)

redsilk yes you did you said 'They will be back in school and happy in days, and this whole thing will be behind them.'

sorry but your fantasising. You know nothing of the family life and what they will have missed and looking forward too. For one tHing the youngest was 7 when she left she may not have all that clear memories, it's likely the younger two will struggle badly.
I honestly think it would be really heartless of the family for them to have a 'happy family reunion' when they have just been taken from their mum.

Reading the fathers Facebook page is only going to give you info that he wants you to have, it could be true it could also be complete bollocks.
Has he responded at all to the videos showing his daughters screaming and begging for their mother?

Plus they aren't to be returned to the father yet the are with the Italian Authrities until the court case.

And why "dubious" hands of Italian social services? How do you know they are dubious?

That said the whole 'sect' thing about Catholism isn't going to help the mother, a very foolish argument when she has been married to him for so long.

I not saying the mum is innocent in all this, I get the feeling both parents may be as bad as each other. My only issue is the girls shouldn't have been returned in that manner and their wishes on the matter should have been taken into consideration.

Well there are sects within Catholocism aren't there?

I'm still wondering why Australian police apparently always have to be armed, even when dealing with vulnerable children.

What happens when they are interviewing child victims?

It's awful but I can't help thinking if the father had run off with the 4 girls and not returned them as promised everyone would be up in arms.

She took them on holiday and never returned them. That's pretty shocking and has landed them in this situation!

No, there aren't sects in Catholicism, there are congregations.

The thread's about the sight of the girls screaming and fighting as they manhandled away against their will. About their rights being tradduced because they are aged 9 to 15.

Isn't it?

LittleBairn, why would you say they are with the Italian authorities? there is a court order giving parents both custody. in Italy (or any place) there would need to be a court order finding both parents to be unsuitable for the authorities to take them, and hasn't happened.

and why should the children be denied the joy of seeing family? to make them feel the pain of the event?

seriously. the dad's task is to make his daughters feel welcome and serene. family is good. reunion is good. healing is even better.

and we were talking about scars and moving on w life. different.

I think i'd be sympathetic to a Father who was citing abuse in the same circumstances too actually.

Anyone know about the alleged 'mental health issues' of the Father?

I have just read that despite the promise made to the court that he would not press charges against the mother, apparently the charges are already underway? anyone know any more about that?

He can make new charges, anyway.

ladies (and not-ladies), you can't drop criminal charges and then file them again.

but there is a fair point about whether the authorities can pursue the charges on their own even if the father drops them. I read that the Australian judge had asked for reassurances from the authorities in Italy that they would do this, but I do not recall reading that he got an answer. I'm guessing he did or he wouldn't have sent the girls back to Italy, but I can't confirm that from any of the reports I've read or either of the FB pages.

on the accusations of mental health issues, and the violence issues, and the sect issues... the judge in Australia did not find any reason to prevent the girls from returning. end of story.

but the parents once had five daughters. they lost one, and who wouldn't have issues and be despondent after that? they'd be unbalanced not to have issues.

I just love reading the Catholic Church described as a "sect", no doubt the girls are themselves Catholic.