Judge in late abortion case linked to conservative Christian charity

[HoleyGhost]

" A judge who criticised UK abortion policies while sentencing a woman to eight years in prison for performing her own abortion at a late stage in her pregnancy is one of at least five members of the judiciary with links to a Christian charity which has campaigned for more conservative abortion laws."

Thought this deserved a thread of its own.

That's something I suppose but by a short sentence I mean 12 months or less. I do confess though to very limited knowledge of our legal/prison systems. Just trying to apply "SES logic"

There maybe big difference between Maisha Mohammed and Sara Catt's cases that we are not aware of. Maisha Mohammed was young and lack of basic literacy made her more vunerable. Prehaps it could be argued that Maisha Mohammed got off far too lightly.

It would be interesting to see what sentence a British Muslim judge would set. I imagine the penalty for killing a full term fetus in many countries would be far harsher than anything the UK would do.

I might be a liberal lefty but surely she needs help, just as women do who are so disturbed as to kill their babies shortly after birth.

Really, if there was a significant difference that explained the discrepancy in sentencing, the judge would have stated it. He didn't. The only significant difference that is apparent is that this judge is a member of an organisation that is at least linked to anti-abortion campaigns.

What she did was horrific but she should be sentence for the crime of which she was found guilty, and sentenced fairly and dispassionately. That's what we expect judges to do - whether they are Muslim, Christian, atheist or Scientologists.

Thank you for explaining that Unity

Thank you for explaining about infanticide domestic, I didnt know that.

I suspect this lady should have been treated better and I think she probably has mental health issues and was very unlucky to get up before Judge Anti Abortion. If I were her lawyers I would use it on an appeal. However I suspect there are very few cases so we will have no comparators.

You used to get a lower sentence if you killed your own child up to 12 months of age in Englsh law for I think the right reasons - often women have depression etc.

"Personally I am appalled at what this woman did. Particularly if motivated by the fact she was worried about her affair being discovered"

That in itself - a fear of a 7 year affair being found out is evidence that this woman felt constained (whether real or imagined) and felt unable to act autonomously. A more empowered and confident person would make a decision to be with the partner they wanted to be with. Logic usually dictates that if you're unhappy with your husband you split up.
This woman wasn't right - her thinking was probably disordered and irrational and her emotions highly charged. She didn't warrant such harsh punishment -she needs some compassion and help.

I think what this woman did was appalling and shouldn't that tell us something?

what does it tell us apart from the fact that she did a terrible thing?

Ithinksheneedshelp.

I love the fact that everyone is a armchair lawyer about this particular case speculating on the motives of the judge

Isn't it distinctly possible that the judge would have been very measured about the sentencing knowing that his Christian beliefs might be construed as unduly influencing his decision. I dont think that somebody in his position would have blindly cast aside relevant legal procedures to give an extraneous sentence to this woman without having the wit to realise that his actions would win her freedom at the Court of Appeal. I'm not religious myself, but I know of lots of people in RL who manage to seperate their religious beliefs and still retain a professionality when going about their job

I fail to see what benefit sending her to prison will have on anyone. I also hope she appeals. Not because I think she had a right to do what she did, but because the judge seems to be motivated by his 'christian' beliefs and has not sentenced fairly. I don't think it is about being pro or anti-choice, its about reasonable and fair sentencing. No need to single this out to deter others, its such a rare crime, being in prison will not help her or bring back her child, really why does she need to go to prison at all, is she a danger to society?

Sending this woman to prison will prevent her from getting pregnant. She has already given up another baby for adoption at birth and did not learn from the experience. This woman is educated, she has access to contraception and prehaps needs to be forced to have help.

How long she needs to be in prison is something for experts to decide.

We all have "beliefs" that affect the way we live our lives. Being a Christian is as valid as any other belief. I hope this case does go to appeal and the sentence stands.4

She was planning to have the baby, knowing in October/November that she was pregnant, and leave her husband for the lover. But then she fell out with the lover, decided to stay with her husband, and went to get an abortion in March, without his knowledge. This was refused because a hospital scan showed she was beyond 24 weeks, so she bought drugs to induce the baby to born while her husband was away.

At almost full term, she took the drugs and delivered the baby, whereupon she either killed it, left it to die, or it was stillborn, which. because she disposed of it at an unknown location, we will never know.

Did the husband know she was pregnant?

She must have been big at that stage.

Anyway it is a mess - I agree.

Maybe she would consider being steralised as a valid option - rather than going to prison inorder to not get pregnant

The husband was away a lot and she had a history of concealing pregnancies, late abortion requests and secretly carrying a child to term while at university and then having it adopted at birth.

baking - then why did the judge make entirely irrelevant anti-abortion remarks? If he wanted to avoid any suggestion that his personal beliefs resulted in an excessive sentence, he would have kept his gob shut on that topic.

He wouldn't be the first judge to have a sentence reviewed unfavourably. Judges are supposed to be intelligent, yet every now and again you do get some idiot who says an 11yo was a willing participant in rape or some such outrageous nonsense.

I'm assuming there must have been relationship problems with her husband both ways - he must have neither looked at her or touched her if he was unaware of the pregnancy.

This lover and father of the baby - did he reject her? I'm thinking that could be a motive. Maybe she was very angry with him and wanted to punish him, because if she was thinking rationally she could have easily put the child up for adoption - like she'd done before.

Just thinking out aloud...

I can understand the judge being exasperated with her.

"He wouldn't be the first judge to have a sentence reviewed unfavourably. Judges are supposed to be intelligent, yet every now and again you do get some idiot who says an 11yo was a willing participant in rape or some such outrageous nonsense."

edam I don't think you can compare sending Sara Catt to jail for 8 years with saying that an 11 year old is a willing participant in rape.

There are plenty of non christians who would agree with the judge's sentencing. I don't think that the judge's views are that outrageous.

It is possible that Sara Catt might end up with a longer sentence on appeal if the judge is muslim or even a humanist. However she has the right to take that risk.

She may end up with a longer sentence but it should have nothing to do with the judge's belief system, whether that's religious or philosophical or whatever. Even if he's a flipping Jedi Knight. (And it is still almost always a man.)

I didn't mean the rape comments were comparable, just pointing out judges are not always wise or sensible.

domesticgodless she took drugs to induce labour. It is highly probable that the baby was indeed born alive. In that instance we are no longer talking abortion or fetus, but murder and baby. I'd rather save my compassion for that poor child

Me too runningforme, does no one have any compassion for the baby?
This baby would have been full-term when born, its highley probable he was born alive so i reserve my feelings for him too.
He didn't ask to be born, and maybe if the mother had have taken precautions the baby wouldn't have suffered as a result.

Ie: precautions so she didn't become pregnant in the first place, after all this is her 3rd unwanted child!