Nigerian woman flying to UK to have c section on NHS

[Liketochat1]

A Nigerian mother flew to the UK to have a c section in Manchester hospital for free. Does this matter? Wouldn't any mother do what she could to ensure better care for her child? Why do people get all outraged?

Trazzletoes This gives information showing you need to be ordinarily resident to receive NHS treatment at no cost. I was not an ordinarily resident so should not have received treatment at no cost. It has been this way for a very long time.

I don't think we're getting all the information in this case. It sounds like she's probably very well-off, so could afford to pay. It also says they only left hospital last week, so she could well have settled the bill by now!

But this individual case aside, the issue is more about how the system works. I'm personally quite pleased an NHS hospital won't turn unwell mothers away unless they produce a credit card, as that would lead to some very sad stories that most of us wouldn't be proud of. But at the same time, if thousands of woman did this it wouldn't be affordable for us in the long-run.

What's the solution??

Oh, I'd also add that before I got admitted for my induction, I had a lady with a clipboard at Barnet hospital sit me down and quiz me for 20 minutes about which country I'd lived in for every year of my life. Essentially accusing me of being a foreigner trying to milk the NHS - that can't be good use of resource either...

NewRose I would have been very annoyed about the woman with a clipboard too because the rule is very simple. It doesn't matter where you have lived before coming to the UK - you just need to be an ordinary resident. If you were admitted for an induction I would presume you had been referred by your healthcare team which would make such inquiries unnecessary.

Newrow - no I think that was an excellent use of resources. Her time probably cost at the most £15-£20. Your care could have cost £10,000 upwards. It's worth Trusts taking the time. Problem is that when people are in dire medical need they will not be turned away even if it is supected the bill will not be paid.
The bill in this case is tiny compared to some. I've read about some London hospitals which are 'hundreds of thousands out of pocket.'

'Er, as a British Citizen you ARE entitled to free NHS treatment no matter which country you live in...' is completely wrong btw. As has been said it's residence not nationality which is important.

blister what about people who are housed straight away and are on benefits after arriving in the UK. they don't contribute for 5 years before this.

i am a bit sceptical about this 5 year thing

is this non EU citizens?

also i thought everyone residing here received child benefit straight away

also what if the women having the caesarian stops a resident of the UK from having their emergency caesarian and you are the latter or it is your own daughter is this scenario.

i think they should have insisted she got out her credit card or cash.

it really is a difficult situation.. it's not great to see someone deliberately take advantage of the disorganisation of the system (and it IS disorganised).. but yet you can see their point to some extent as well.. and refusing someone essential care because they cannot pay is not great either...

Yes alemci it's for non EU citizens. I think if they are non-EU and housed/"benefited" straight off the plane then they must be asylum seekers? As far as I know if that's not the case then you DON'T get any sort of benefits for five years.

i expect alot of the people who are non European probably go through another EU country first e.g. Holland to get around this

Triggles I can't see their point to any extent. If you are not a resident of the UK you should not be taking a plane ride to the UK so you can have treatment using NHS resources. When I used the NHS hospital it was an emergency and if I could have waited I would have seen a private doctor in the morning. The issue is that in the north there aren't many private doctors around and I don't know of any private hospitals that offer maternity services.

I wouldn't be surprised if she calculated that flying to Manchester was cheaper than the private medical facilities (which I hear are world class) in Nigeria that she could have used.

We don't know whether she did it because of the cost or because she was scared of receiving treatment in her own country. I think it was a brave thing she did even if I don't actually agree the idea. And as someone upthread wrote we don't know if she is paying or going to pay.

I know that non EU citizens who come to this country to work are not entitled to claim benefit but can enrol their children at school.

Coming into the UK through Holland wouldn't change their citizenship though . For example an Indian is an Indian whether (s)he came directly to the UK or got here through another European country.

Yes whyme2, they can enrol the children at school and use the NHS too if they're on a work permit or HSMP visa etc. though no benefits.

honestly blister they do. maybe they secure citizenship in an EU country my friend works in a school and the kids told her that is what happens. the parents don't manage to secure work in Holland so they come to Britain afterwards and claim benefits here instead.

I don't quite understand how it works but I think our system is abused at every level.

anyway i know i have gone slightly off thread.

Alemci I agree the system is abused at every level but it is up to our politicans to set policy so it isn't allowed. I would like the NHS to offer healthcare that is a similar standard to what I receive in the US. It isn't possible to do that when health tourists are not charged at appropriate rates.

Regardless of whether the bill was paid or not, I do think the amount of the bill should have been higher. According to the Telegraph:

'A hospital source labelled her a 'health tourist' and said she had required vast resources, including midwives, two urology consultants, a radiology consultant, two obstetric consultants and two anaesthetists in the delivery room.'

GBP 10K is rather cheap for all that care. I would have thought something closer to GBP 30-35K would have been more appropriate and realistic.

NorthernLurker - perhaps it was good use of resource. However I've lived in North London / the Midlands all my life, and have never spent more than a month at a time away from our fair isle, so maybe just unnecessary in my case, and a horrid experience.
Want2b - not sure, £10K doesn't sound too paltry a sum to me (it's only slightly less than people I know who've had private c-sections), but either way it shouldn't happen - if she ends up not paying it, that is.

As an nhs midwife I've seen this happen a few times, not many. A friend who works in Birmingham says its a weekly occurrence. Women fly in, normally from Africa. They lie about how pregnant they are to the airline, hard to tell with floaty dresses on. They walk through the door labouring, deliver and go again quickly after.

I've certainly had the finance dept ring me to ask me ow many non EU women are on the postnatal ward. I've then been told to go and tell them they have to pay for treatment. But of course we don't keep them prisoner until they leave, so they just go with an invoice for a few thousand £. I doubt many pay.

One of the consultants told me he thought I should lie to the finance dept and just say that there aren't any non EU women on the ward. He says it's not our job to help the finance dept hound vulnerable women. I see his point but if everyone had that view the nhs wold go under.

NewRow I looked into going private up north. It isn't possible. Only hospital to do complete private care is the Portland and the cost is far in excess of GBP10K for a CS requiring urology and radiology consultants. I was told to expect the cost for a routine CS plus 3 day stay to be approx GBP20-25K. Chelsea and Wesminster hospital have a private ward but you are only paying for the ward not care which is paid for by the NHS which is why the cost was so much cheaper.

Viva I agree that a nurse shouldn't be telling a patient that they have to pay for treatment. Your job is to care for the patient. Even here in the US the nurses don't tell patients that they need to pay.

perhaps if the individual doesn't pay, the government should bill the country where the person is from. i know that is wishful thinking.

i appreciate the women are probably poor but if they can get on an airline in the first place. it puts the hospitals in a really arkward position.

TBH the politicians probably won't act but I think this does need addressing

Lets think how that would work in practice though.

So now a government is financially responsible for the actions of its citizens abroad? What about vandalism? Criminal damage? Claims for damages that arise from assault/murder/manslaughter? Damage to vehicles? Non payment of fines/parking charges?

I'd be very worried about the cost to the UK government if we became financially liable for the acts of our citizens abroad. I suspect it would make a lot of lawyers very rich... certainly it would outweigh the costs of a few hundred c-sections.

I think the easiest way would be to require anyone who is obviously pregnant to have travel insurance that covers them health wise when entering the country. This could be checked by the airline so passengers without cover are not flying into the UK. If someone uses NHS resources once in the UK then a record should be made if they have a disease such as AIDS, cancer etc and they too should be required to have travel insurance that covers them health wise to reenter the country.

If you can afford a plane ticket then you can afford travel insurance.

I have a friend who is a Midwife. She has talked about this going on for several years and it becoming more popular. I suppose that it is self fulfilling in that the more that do it and get away with it, the more will see it going on and think "I'll have a bit of that!"

My dh was quizzed by his surgery for about 20 mins re his residency about a year ago. He'd been registered for about a 15 years at this particular surgery. He wasn't offended.

About 5 years earlier his dm was over in uk and she got sick (but turned out she'd been warned by her own doctor about her minor condition and warned not to travel until this stone had passed but had ignored it) and she was in A&E for a night and needed interpreters (aka - in the end - me) - no health insurance etc. She never thought about it because she was staying with her ds. I think what made me very nervous was the thought of her not being able to get her flight home!