Nigerian woman flying to UK to have c section on NHS

[Liketochat1]

A Nigerian mother flew to the UK to have a c section in Manchester hospital for free. Does this matter? Wouldn't any mother do what she could to ensure better care for her child? Why do people get all outraged?

I dont agree with this at all. Why was she allowed to fly so late in pregnancy (me being suspicious thinks she lied about how far along she was) and why didnt the hospital make sure she had a way to pay before treating her?

Is there a risk flying so late in pregnancy or is it just as a precaution incase you go into labour?

It's not very carefully monitored in many areas either. When I first registered for a surgery here, even though they knew I was American, they never asked to see my visa, didn't question anything. It was never questioned when I had DS1 at hospital either.

When we moved to Gloucestershire, I ended up ill in hospital for a few weeks at our local hospital. While I was dosed up on pain meds and barely coherent, some woman from their "International Billing" department came in to see me and asked me all sorts of questions - I could barely stay awake to understand them, much less answer. She was asked (by the nurse) to come back in a few days when (hopefully) I would be up to answering her questions. So when she came back in a few days, she asked to see my marriage certificate/licence. (Not sure why in the world she thought I would have that with me in hospital! ) I told her it was at home. So she said they'd have to bill me for care (even though I qualified for free care years previously!). When I got the bill, I rang the office to find out what copies they needed to sort it out, and they insisted they just needed a copy of my marriage certificate. I DID tell them that the marriage certificate actually doesn't prove anything anymore, that it's the VISA they should be checking, but she said "oh, the visa has nothing to do with benefits - it's only whether or not you are supposed to be in the country. It's all to do with the marriage licence." Okay. She's wrong. But okay.

If their own billing department is clueless, then how in the world can they stay on top of it anyway??

WildWorld I guess they don't do a pregnancy test on you before you fly. She prob just concealed it and some people manage not to look v pregnant even late on.

And if it had become an emergency by the time she was here (even if it was scheduled iyswim) they couldn't refuse treatment and risk the death of both of them.

i don't agree with it either. no wonder the NHS is in such dire straits and we are so in debt as an economy. perhaps we need to be a bit tougher and make visitors pay up.

i am sure this goes on alot and we are an international health service

also i suspect the airlines may turn a blind eye

if you or i go abroad we have to take out health insurance.

I see why people get annoyed but how would you feel living in a country with a 1 in 13 chance of death in labour. Suely you would want the best for you and your child. Imagine how unfair it must seem seeing what other countries have compared to yours. So you can see how you would do anything for your child's safety.

The NHS doesn't go under benefits though, the "no recourse to public funds" stamped on visas doesn't refer to health or schooling but benefits benefits like CHB etc. Astonishing that they themselves didn't know.

When I had DD2 I was asked (in the waiting area/lobby of the hospital no less, in front of other waiting patients in the hospital as I waited for my appointment with the consultant) for my passport so that they could photocopy the visa page to make sure that I was eligible for free treatment on the NHS. The lady said that she had sent me two letters already advising me of the same but got no reponse . I felt really embarrassed and paranoid that the people around must be judging me as an illegal immigrant/benefit scrounger/Daily Mail textbook foreigner etc. The next day I got a letter as the lady mentioned, by first class mail and postmarked the day before. I have a feeling she forgot to send the letter and then raced back after speaking to us and dropped a letter in the post.

She did say if no visa is produced then a bill will be sent. That's why I'm surprised by this case. I suppose all they can do is treat and bill. And if she's not around to pay then that's it really.

blisterpack but the point I was making is that I could have been married to DH while here on holiday and overstayed (which I didn't by the way, all above board!), and still had a marriage licence, but not been here on the appropriate visa and not been eligible for free NHS treatment. But all they wanted was the marriage licence, which essentially proves nothing IYSWIM.

yes jelly I see that but we don't really know if she was impoverished. there is alot of wealth in Nigeria as well as poverty. perhaps she didn't want to pay for treatment if she could get it her for free?

also if everyone did this then we could end up with a health care service which we would have to pay for directly rather than through taxes like the USA

I can see why she did it. The problem in my mind isn't giving people care, but getting the money back after. She had the resources to fly (and is by some accounts a Harvard graduate - so clearly not short of a bob or two there)

In Singapore you will be detained at the airport if it looks like you're leaving permanently and you haven't cleared your income tax. I know that it costs money to detain people, but perhaps if it's known that this will happen then it'll disuade people a bit from doing this kind of thing.

Having a child who is a citizen (if this child is a citizen) doesn't normally confer any right to reside on the parent - at least in any countries I've been in. I don't know about the UK.

Yes I agree with you triggles, it's the billing department people I was disagreeing with :). I know what you mean.

just seems there are a number of irregularities about this situation. I suspect there is a fair bit more to the story than what's been reported.

blisterpack hey, I did my duty, I attempted to tell her, but she was having none of it. Carry on then, hospital lady, as it'll bite you in the bum at some point.....

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that it's not unknown for UK citizens to ramp up huge hospital bills in the US and then come home without paying (they don't actually strap you to the bed until you cough up, and I'm not talking about people deliberately going there for medical treatment - just emergency care without insurance).

I'm not sure how hospitals in other countries recover their costs if former patients abscond without paying.

1 in 13 women die in pregnancy and childbirth in Nigeria. Wouldn't you do anything you could to protect yourself and your child if those were the stats, and then you found out there were complications?

They've billed her, that's all they can do. The hospital could hardly have turned her away.

Doesn't really make it right in that situation either, sleepyhead. But I'm sure there are loads of people that don't buy travel insurance and get caught with illness or injury when abroad. It's a stupid mistake to make though.

Oh no, I'm not saying it's right, just that it's not a typical-soft-NHS-going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket thing and more of a universal problem when you bill people for something and they then leave the country/issue with pursuing debtors.

I guess a difference is that the NHS is publically funded and US hospitals are not (or are they in some cases?), hence more public interest in the issue as it's seen as the taxpayer being out of pocket?

I've never travelled abroad without medical insurance, but had assumed if I did, and needed treatment, I'd have to pay up. Never really thought about if/how they'd enforce that.

Any solution is going to have to be on that 'side' of the problem though. Turning away patients in need of treatment is not going to be acceptable to most people.

Sir boob - they did what they had to do.

But I thought the UK was strict on people coming in for treatment. My own dh was recently made to provide his own documents for getting treatment in this country even though he's an EU citizen living and paying tax here for for 20 years. They even questioned our young child who's a UK citizen. DH was offended as he's been here legally for 2 decades and paying his way.

She would be billed for the op as is resident outside the EU.

This happens in education too - students enrol, do not pay fees then leave before college can pursue them for the money.

Something tells me that this is not your typical impoverished, choiceless village woman. I could be wrong but this is someone who very late in pregnancy, and with complications too, has the means and nous to go to a far away foreign land and demand treatment that she is legally not entitled to. Doesn't quite fit the profile of the former.

I agree with the fact that she has been treated though. I don't think anything else is acceptable. It's one of those situations where there's not much that can be done.

I read this in the Telegraph yesterday. The article insinuated that the lady purposefully came to the UK for treatment. I questioned a lot of the information given in the article. I can't believe that given the list of consultants who treated her that the bill only came to GBP10K.

The NHS billing system is a bad joke. I am no longer a UK resident and told the doctor this when I needed treatment when visiting family. I was very happy to pay. I was told that because I was a citizen then I didn't have to pay. I knew this wasn't true but it was impossible to find out who to contact and I gave up in the end after making more than a dozen phone calls. Things have improved a lot through in recent years and I liked it when I saw the list of charges on the wall at my Dads GP. My Dad moved back to the UK after working abroad and makes a point of always paying to see the doctor because he didn't pay taxes in the UK while he was working.

The NHS is for the benefit of the residents of the UK. Personally I think those coming to the UK should have to pay a premium or purchase an insurance policy which would pay for treatment to use NHS resources at no cost in the first five years. Healthcare isn't free. It is paid for by the taxpayer. I was shocked that the girls from overseas that I was at boarding school with were able to receive NHS dental treatment and healthcare at no cost while they were at school. Their parents had the means to pay for GBP20K for school fees a year (in the 90's) so they clearly had the means to pay for their childs healthcare.

But Want2b in the first five years they pay all UK taxes without getting standard benefits like CHB, tax credits etc., so they are already paying into the system more than UK citizens.

Er, as a British Citizen you ARE entitled to free NHS treatment no matter which country you live in...

blister Thats the problem. You can't deny treatment but it is unfair that the British public be expected to pay for this freeloader.

If anything this case is probably going to result in pressure being put on the airlines. I do think that anyone visiting another country while pregnant should have either proof of health insurance or proof of means to pay. It's fine to travel when pregnant if you are having a healthy pregnancy but things can go wrong and it is foolish to not have coverage to cover yourself. So far during my pregnancy I have visited Canada, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium, UK and Bermuda. I wouldn't get on plane to visit any of these places without health insurance that fully covers my pregnancy.