Pussy Riot members sentenced

[cocolepew]

3 years, I think it was. Sorry can't link on phone.

Btw, claig, I'm pretty sure bebe is right that's a mistranslation.

Levada Center also says 50 percent of muscovites are against criminal charges, while only 36 percent were in favour.

'Similar umbrage would have been taken inside St Paul's or the Vatican.' Would it result in 2 years jail though???
'And those who doubt that may well wonder what tension would have been caused by a flash-mob invading a mosque at Friday prayers.' So, that is what we should be looking at and thinking 'aren't we lucky?' Not the rule of law?

Sorry, but this is rediculous

I agree, I think that people who believe the same sentence would be handed out 'in the West' are wrong (and also a bit confused about how different bits of 'the West' are!).

But, surely it is possible both to condemn what has happened and think it's corrupt, and to understand why some people are conflicted about it?

Lrd, I am a Moscovite and you don't have to believe me of course, but I am 100% confident that nobody would have paid any notice if the unlawful criminal charges weren't brought in. People found the performance distasteful, but the would not have remembered it the following week.

However the message from the authorities here was clear - we will do with you whatever we see fit even if what you do is not a criminal offence - and in the country suffering unprecedented clampdown on protests it created a huge stir.

have to go now...

DH is a Muscovite too, bebe, and a devout Othodox Christian. It's possible, surely, that amongst the fairly large number of people who live in Moscow, there exist a range of opinions?

I don't deny that the sentencing was ridiculous. I thought the claim earlier in this thread that Pussy Riot were behaving like terrorists was offensive and daft. But that doesn't mean everyone is like you and found nothing religiously offensive about what happened. Some people did.

Ok, I don't deny some people found it religiously offensive. I cannot possibly say none did.

What I am saying is that those people who were offended are in a minority, what the group did was not a criminal offense and they were punished not because of the religious sensibilities. In addition, what is happening in this particular church should be a lot more offensive to the truly religious people, not what these women did to highlight the corruption of the State, the KGB and the Church.

I agree with that. I did say, I think people are upset about what's happening in the Church.

I don't really get what you're trying to say? You seem to think I'm getting it all wrong (which I may be), but you then agree with everything when I say it twice? Are we going round in circles here?!

I cannot believe that I am saying this, but Pussy Riot have ripped brilliantly all the jewels off this rotting union to let everyone see its disgusting nature.

Right, must go now!

We probably do agree on most things here LRD :)

OK, good.

And thanks SGM ... just reading through that but it is interesting so far.

I don't know enough about Russia to have a helpful opinion on Pussy Riot. But I think it is an interesting question to ask what would have happened to similar campaigners in the UK who performed punk songs criticising David Cameron in the same type of places.

I imagine that they would most likely have been charged with aggravated trespass for their earlier performances (on the metro, on top of buses) and probably fined (maximum penalty £2500 fine or 3 months in prison, but more likely £2-300 for first offences).

But of course for any protests within the designated area around parliament there are potentially more serious penalties (up to 51 weeks in prison).

Performing in say St Pauls - well, I guess we've seen from Occupy that the Church authorities after a bit of a wobble were reluctant to be seen to be prosecuting activists. I don't know if that would still be the case if they were anti Church, but I suspect probably so.

No doubt by this time the band members would find that they had personal police attendants following them around a lot of the time, and definitely present if they went near any significant sites. On previous form (not only the recent cases, but going back at least to the 60s) then the Met also would probably have managed to place an undercover officer in any movement that they were a part of.

So I guess overall less severe consequences than Pussy Riot have faced in Russia, but certainly not trivial.

I guess the nearest equivalent I can think of here with religious implications is Milan Rai & Maya Evans being arrested for refusing to stop reading out the names of Iraqi war dead at the Cenotaph. I think they were fined, but Milan Rai at least refused to pay the fine and went to prison.

I'd say that's a better equivalent than Occupy - given that Occupy were at least initially allowed there by St Pauls, and given how people feel about the Cenotaph.

I dunno, I just feel that while I can smile at some of their lyrics and support what they are saying (especially after reading the closing statements), I can't help thinking of the people (and lots of them are women) for whom being religious was something that was repressed in Soviet times. And it seems difficult that some of those people would feel hurt and upset by this protest even if they themselves agreed with the content of what was being said.

Yes, I agree that Occupy isn't a helpful comparison in terms of religious implications.

I suppose my feeling is that similar activists here wouldn't face such harsh direct penalties (not likely to get 2 years in prison) but would probably be dealing with fines, community service orders plus extra-judicial ongoing harassment (houses turned over, paperwork & computers taken away, parents houses probably also turned over & computers confiscated for the younger ones).

Another comparison that comes to mind is Charlie Gilmour hanging off the Cenotaph, though I'm not sure that there was any the same level of political calculation going on there.