Why do so many of our olympic athletes come from public school?

[ivykaty44]

and what would you do to change it?

I loved slug's post (16:39hrs), about culture and opportunity.

And was wondering if the reason more come from private schools is that they have much greater freedom to authorise absences (competing/high level training), and guaranteed return to same school after eg training camps abroad.

ChuckDick sorry but my dads motervation that saw my brother play in the newcastle talent camp was ££££

When my dad didnt make my wedding to watch my brothers match

We chllanged him he said and i quote me all have to foucus on ......... Because when he makes it we will all be rewared for pulling together

Its the same with these pagent type mums or modleing tots mums its about the benjaims baby for some parents who were very sporty themselves its aout the pride what drives my dad is the fact one day in his world we will all be made

headfairy but come on alot easier to go sailing when you live by the sea and their are bloody boats every were you go :)

Well tbh that makes your dad sound like a dick anyway bojangles, total sympathy for you as no game is more important than a wedding!

Oh no doubt, of course it is. It takes an imaginative HT to initiate a sports programme like ours (and our HT was a nun!).

Mind you, dh grew up in Jersey and he can't really swim, had never sailed (before I met him - on a round the world yacht race :o) and hates sand so there's no accounting for people....

My DS does most of his sporting activities outside of school...football and cricket. We're not well off and it does eat into alot of time and money but he's good at the sports and we feel its a sacrifice worth making. We do feel guilty about the time/commitment we have to give to his sporting activities as we do have other children. Where we can we try to include the whole family in what he's doing and so far no resentment or jealousy is showing. Obviously, the opportunity is there for ALL our DC's to try sport (within reason.....we can't stretch to pony!) if they should want to...think the youngest will follow in his footsteps. Eldest just is not bothered but has tried things out. Mainly i think a huge problem in all of this is the attitude we seem to have to winning in schools these days and how we treat 'competition'. At my sons sports day he was in team which won an activity (all be it a ridiculous one in my opionion...the modern school sports day is a farce IME), they were given a point for winning. However, then the teacher announced that the losing team would also be awarded a point too.....for having a nice attitude to the other children in the team who didn't perform that well!!! That just about sums it all up don't you think!? I have no experience of private schooling but if the desire to succeed and win/be the best is taught to the pupils of these schools, whilst kids in the state school are stripped of victory because the other team were 'nice' then maybe thats an indicator (albeit small) of why the private sector kids go on to do well in sporting activities?

Yes 4boys mum - at my dc school sport is competitive no doubt about it, the best get are picked to be on the school teams. On sports day every race is for winning and you get a medal for first, second and third. Trophies/cups are also given out.

They also have speech day where academic(maths, reading,music) and other prizes (effort, handwriting) are awarded

So hopefully no matter what you are good at there are prizes etc to be won, but by no means does every child get one.

4boyz I think Sports Day is a complete, cruel waste of time.We don't have Maths Day,Reading Day in front of a load of parents.If we did I bet the lowest ability in maths or reading would get points so they didn't feel utterly ridiculed.

Those able at sports should get the support from schools to compete or work alongside others with a similar ability like in any other subject,Sports Day is pointless,tedious and something to be endured for many. I really don't want to sit through hours of other kids showing off their talents bought for by their parents.Parents don't have to sit through hours of my dd's fab reading.

Anyhow as I said before it all boils down to money,even doing football costs money(fees,kit etc).4boyz you say you're not well off but you must be better off than many as many couldn't afford to enable their dc to do football and cricket.

I also think it takes a bit more than having sporty parents,jogging round a field isn't going to get you as far as paying to be in an athletics club,gym lessons,a coach,contacts,quality kit etc,etc.

I think a lot of this is because sport is valued by the private sector in a way it just isn't in the state sector - and actually all 'public success by old boys/girls' matters more to the private sector - it's part of the marketing.

But also it's a culture of the public schools that's just not there in state schools - state schools are judged solely on their ability to get DCs GCSEs and A levels - their ability to teach the subjects they have to teach well. Success in sport, drama, music, are 'nice to have' not 'vital to our school success'.

Private schools do have more emphasis on the "whole child" education- you find that with the debating clubs as well as the sports - you will find over and over again comments about the confidence of public school boys/girls, this isn't something they just magically got, the schools put effort into this even though it's not going to get you a qualification.

Private schools are judged by parents, not just by league tables (although those are also important) and most parents aren't just paying for good results, they are paying for all round education.

State schools are measured and controlled so much more on things that can be measured on that year group - quite frankly, 'wasting' important learning time and limited school resources on minority sports on the off chance that in a decade time, long after leaving the school some of the DCs will get olympic medals is a huge waste of time for a state school. (Unless you find a teacher with a passion for a particular sport).

Oh and others have said, football is different, but it's not like the majority of ex-state school footballers had the bulk of their football training at school - talent scouts go out from all the premier league clubs, they know what they are looking for and approach (if not formally) parents/coaches for boys as young as 10 (in my experience, could be younger and I just haven't heard about it). If the boys family are prepared to take them for a trial, then it is the club, not the school will then train the boys - normally putting massive financial investment in the boys' training that the school couldn't do. Boys in this situation are normally discouraged from playing football for their school teams to focus on the training for the club. (Girls football doesn't have anywhere near the same money thrown at it by the premiership)

Most Olympic sports aren't as big as football, they don't have the money in them to make it worth the while of outside organisations talent scouting and investing in young children to get them to 'world class' standard - so it's a case of DIY for those sports, and you will only do it yourself if you have a school who can do it for you, or parents who will encourage/fund/push you.

Don'tmindifido - I agree totally, one of the things i liked most about the school was the all roundedness that they encourage. They believe that every child can excel and they encourage sport,musical, creative success as much as academic.

But this thread is about why the majority of athletes in the Olympics come from public schools, so although I take what you are getting at with regards to Maths Days etc, its not quite relevant to this thread. Sporting events are by their very nature compeititve. Someone has to win, someone has to lose. The winner should be congratulated and rewarded. That's not to say the loser should be ridiculed, but the winner should not have his success 'dumbed down' to spare the feelings of those who didn't win. My DS has experienced both winning and losing in his sporting activities. We try to teach him to be gracious in defeat as well as victory but also to have some 'fire in his belly' and that desire to win. If some schools are discouraging this desire to succeed in children by doing things as i explained in my earlier posting then as far as compeititive sports goes it can only be detrimental? And, ok we're not on the brink of destitution but not by any stretch are we close to being called well off. We are lucky in that older relatives within extended family have been able to donate kit/boots/equipment etc. I appreciate that not everyone has this able to them.

I spent most of my education in a state school then went to Millfield for 2 years. What a difference. At state school any boy who didn't play football, rugby or cricket was written off by the sports teachers. At Millfield I had numerous sports to choose from. I did squash, and it didn't matter that I was rubbish. I was still coached and encouraged. I did orienteering and found an enthusiasm for running. I did archery and became school captain. I even had a go at fencing but hated it. There was much more time put aside for sports. Instead of a couple of hours throughout the week it was two whole afternoons. Is it any wonder that private school produce more elite sportsmen and women?

The figures were 50% of Olympic medals were attained by 7% of the athletes and these had attended public school. The spokesperson (Lord Moynihan) also commented these figures were the same for professions ie 50% of lawyers,doctors etc came from 7% of the school population ie public school.

Cycling has a lot of money there, sky are not shy on paying large amounts, isn't Wiggins on over a million and half and with football never winning will things change on that score? We have numerous gold medals in cycling and we have won one world cup and that was well over 45 years ago.

I am actually quite good at team sports, less so at athletics and so on, but at public school my PE teacher stood out in all weathers in her lunch hour giving me 1:1 coaching, as I had expressed an interest in seeing how fast my somewhat wobbly size 16 frame with 34D bust could run.

I ended up winning an Amateur Athletics Association silver medal for 200m.

This is how to build sporting heroes. If kids want to be out there and wanting to do it, then you need teachers out there able and willing to teach them, regardless of whether kids are contenders for a school team, or considered physically suited, or whatever. Only then will you build up a critical mass of possible talent from which to select future Olympians.

BTW we spent about 3 hours a week doing PE and 90 minutes on a Saturday morning running around playing energetic games, plus we had access to tennis courts out of hours so spent a lot of time knocking balls over the net, also playing rounders in the chapel garden and so on. Girls simply don't seem to do all that now.

Yeah, the sports we excell in are ones with relatively little publicity/media attention and lesser known athletes/sportsmen. In comparison with football anyway, which we always do pretty dismally in. Perhaps the ego/attitudes of some very major football players is to blame. Look at the way some of them conduct themselves when playing compared to what we're looking at in terms of behaviour by the Olympic athletes. Could you imagine Rebecca Adlington or Chris Hoy running to the tv camera after winning and shouting fuck you into the lense like our delightful Wayne Rooney did once after scoring a goal?! Just an observation, sorry, i know its gone off topic somewhat!

4 I agree Sports Day isn't relevant but you did raise the issue.

Personally I think state schools should be putting far more into encouraging kids into taking up sport for enjoyment and fitness, they don't at all. Schools just focus on a few team games and competitive events.This and Sports Day put many,many kids off sport full stop and they get unfit.You never know some of these kids may be good at other sports but they'll never know as they're not encouraged to keep fit and enjoy sport just for them.

Sports Day I'm afraid should involve all and make all feel valued in the same way other subjects are handled.I don't think there should be one rule for one subject and a different one for another.

As you say that is a whole other thread though,sorry to hijack.

I agree with you prarie, insomuch as i think that there's a difference in teaching and encouraging kids to play and enjoy sport regardles of capibility and then encouraging the competitive element of sports for those who want to take it to that next level. There should be room in schools for both. Im not sporty whatsoever and never was at school either, so i'd have loved not having to do a sportsday! However seeing it from DS's point of view who loves to compete in sports its frustrating to see him not being able to within his school. The balance needs to be right.

My nephew was recently selected to play for his county's under 13s Badminton team .

It is gobsmackingly expensive in time and money (and as sports go badminton doesn't need much kit). Training, kit, competition fees, travel to and fro. Can only imagine how much worse that gets as you approach national/intermational/olympic level.

Actually doing well in sport involves a lot of parental commitment (getting up at 5 for swim training etc). Parents who are this committed to their kids achievements may also invest their money in their kids so buy education. I live in a town where we have produced at least 3 Olympians from State school, but it is also a town where a lot of parents pay for private, or pay to live in the right school catchment or take time to appeal.

However I also know a state primary which competes with Prep schools, the draw back is that the less obviously "sporty" kids tend to give up on sport. There is also the factor, that if the oldest sibling is good at a sport (or their parent is a coach), often the younger siblings will be funnelled into that sport regardless of their personal preference.

I know someone who got a scholarship to uni in America to train and do her degree. They do exist but you have to be top of your game before the scholarships IME before your offered one iyswim?

I have noticed today how very well spoken and dressed the winners and family have been. Certainly come across as stereotypical wealthy families.

I think the problem with most sports is that they need a lump sum to be paid annually to be a member of a sports club. In reality this may be about £150 a year (so less than a pound per session) but the fact that it's paid at once is the main deal breaker for most families. From what I remember from doing sports as a child it was often the competitions that were most expensive and if you can't compete, you can't get anywhere. Hopefully with this latest surge of funding all of this will change.

Any sport can be expensive but more importantly any competitive sport needs the parent to commit to massive time commitments.
DS1 is currently ranked in the top 40 in GB in his sport. This is a sport that would usually be considered elitist and expensive. However, we searched and found a local club that is committed to its youngsters. He pays less than £50 a year for club fees. If he had to hire kit it would be 50p a week. However, I bought all his kit on ebay for a fairly minimal amount. If I had bought it new it would have knocked me back several hundred pounds for basic kit. I got it all (good quality) for less than a hundred.
But we could be doing competitions every weekend if we could afford it. We can't.

However, in answer to the actual question, both Olympians from our local village went to the Elitist Sporting College nearby - presumably on bursarys. It was where they could train, facilities certainly not available in their sports at the local comps.