Why do so many of our olympic athletes come from public school?

[ivykaty44]

and what would you do to change it?

I'm not so sure it's just down to culture (DonteattheVoles makes a very interesting point - PE is in our national curriculum, children have to have swimming lessons in KS1 and 2 I think) a lot of it I think is down to something as simple as our crappy weather. I know Canadians will blether on about their harsh winters and how they all play sport all year round etc etc, but in countries like Australia and the US they often have a climate much more conducive to being outdoors, and I think that naturally leads to a more sporty culture based purely on my completely uneducated opinion

I think there is something in that head fairy, we are quite a sporty family but we certainly do more when the sun comes out.

Ivy I thought that might be the case... kind of backs up my theory of climate induced sporting apathy. You've really got to love running to do it in the driving rain/on a treadmill in the gym. Neither is a particularly edifying experience.

May have been said already but in order to do sport to a higher than school level you have to have someone who is available to chauffeur the child around all the time. This is why DS1 can't be in the county cricket team for example. We can't keep taking him to the training sessions which are an hour's drive away. We both work and it's just not possible. The county makes no concessions to people who live at our end of things - you are just expected to keep turning up to the county town.

If DS was at a public school it would all be on tap for him and they would also take him to matches and bring him back.

Which brings me on to another bugbear - even at school team level he may well get TAKEN to a match if they manage to book the minibus but they see no reason to bring the team back afterwards. Parents are expected to turn up to whatever school it is at 5pm and get them. Well again this isn't possible for me as I work in London and don't get back that early. DS would normally go to after school club until 6.

I think the culture of coaches/teachers not being allowed to give children lifts etc, and school inability or lack of desire to sort out transport, is a big issue for us. Whereas the pupils who have a non-working or home-working parent can ferry about to their heart's content (Although I imagine they would rather not have to)

Same with the county music service. No longer any transport provided and all courses an hour away.

So public schools score because the child either doesnt have to be taken anywhere on a regular basis to participate and the school sort out transport anyway.

End of rant.

They're talking about this on PM now...

It needs to be pointed out that it is 50% of Olympic medalists, not Olympic team members that went to indepedant schools, I have noticed a few mumsnetters (notably Xenia) not making this clear in their posts, which is misleading.

I would point out that private schools generally only get up to a certain standard in non team sports and that pupils need to train with clubs to get to international standard.

Chris Hoy may have been to private school but he certainly didn't learn track cycling there.

There is more PE at private school but an awful lot of it is spent on rugby and hockey.
Friends DC's at a sporty private school near me quickly had to join clubs to progress at swimming and athletics.

We win medals at Posh sports because they are less popular in other countries so less competition, posh sports are more accessible to well off types who usually go to private schools. ( I can think of a few exceptions though eg. Shirley Robertson, winner of sailing golds).

All the comps near here have excellent facilities and DS 1's school has pupils representing their country in at least 6 different sports at the moment.

So there.

wigglybeezer - sorry could you point to me Xenia's post that you refer to?

Nothing to do with the actual PE at public school I don't think...I went to public school...it's more to do with the contacts you make, knowing the right people. Also when you get to university - if you take rowing, I couldn't join the Nottingham University rowing team because my parents weren't posh enough! this is obviously the short version, but still the truth!
I think public school, particularly the better ones, opened doors for people in the way that comps just don't. Obviously you still need talent etc. Also if you have money, it's no object taking your kids here there and everywhere and paying out for one-on-one coaching/training. (if you take tennis, you're talking min £500+ a month to coach/train a decent young player, there's no short cuts or free short cuts!)

It was in a private school thread of course, she said 50% of Olympians, but come to think of it does Olympian mean a medalist or someone who competed ? I took it to mean competitor but if it is generally taken to mean medalist I apologise for slighting Xenia.

Even of it is 50% of medallists it is still something significant IMO.

Christ Hoy may well have picked up an attitude, a drive, confidence or ambition which links these Olympians.

My dc go to a private primary school - they do pe every day. They can do gymnastics, swimming, hockey, rugby, football, netball, cricket, rounders, cross country, athletics, tennis etc. They do competitive sport, races are to be won etc.

They also have lunchtime, and before and after school clubs for these if pupils choose.

They have dedicated pe teachers

I know that our local state schools don't offer daily pe, such a range of sports or necessarily have the same facilities or even specialist pe teachers.

disclaimer before I get flamed - I know that this may not be typical of other private/state schools.

you have lost me wigglybeezer

Moshling, my DCs have a specialist PE teacher at their small rural primary, and clubs, inter school comps, county sports, competitive sports days.

Dd's primary had a specialist PE teacher, and (and this overlaps with the thread about QTs!) he was bloody rubbish. They had PE twice a week, and she loved the day they did it with the 'proper' teacher and hated it with the PE guy, who may have known a lot abOut football but fuck all about how to motivate, teach, help or manage children.

Yes private school pupils do have to join local cricket clubs too because by 15 they must be playing in the leagues with seniors. I think the ones who have to play school cricket on a Saturday may even be at a dissadvantage. Their state school team mates are playing in mens teams against men from Easter.

A lot of it must be down to confidence and parents pushing their kids on.

I did a lot of activities as a kid and was good at them (dance especially) but if I said I wanted to give them up, my parents would let me immediately. If you're interested enough in your kids to fork out thousands for a private education, I guess you want value for money out of them.

headfairy
We moved to Canada three years ago, and they have outdoor play down to -20 in elementary schools.

That said, the dc's do have pe everyday. But sometimes this randomly seems to consist of walking round the field. Soccer is big for girls and boys. But most things are expensive, just as elsewhere.

I now live in a town which appears to have the highest per capita number of Olympians at any one time (save London at the mo, lol). You trip over them in the street, they are always in and out of the schools waving their medals, and they are generally much more visible. Sport is everywhere. On any weekend in the summer, there are any number of triathlons, running and bike races (off road and road). We have a purpose built trail system which is well maintained, and there are runners and athletes everywhere. It's just a fact of life.

It is pretty niche here though. And of course most people train year round but their main competitive sport is winter stuff. (ice) hockey is huge, but because of where we live, there is a huge amount of ski training (both downhill and cross country) and a big ice skating community. Kids will get up early early to head to the rink before school for training. It's an accepted feature of life.

How many parents in the uk would get their kids up at 5 to get them to the rink for an hour traing before school? (and then spend every weekend driving through blizzards for hours to get to matches?) it's definitely cultural. It's very obvious here, because of the sheer amount of sport going on.

In an aside, I went to uni in the uk to train to become a pe teacher, because I was completely passionate about the sport being accessible to everyone. I hated the way preteen and teen girls were essentially expected to skive off and buy fags, because they were so disenfranchised from the power and strength of their bodies. I lasted two terms, by which point the ethos of the course had driven me to despair. It was sheer elitism, to the extent that we were not expected to smile during gym periods as it meant we weren't't taking it seriously enough. I assume things have changed, but I see no difference in the opening up the enjoyment of sport and physical activity to anything other than a few.

I love where we live. Even dd2, who has cp, swims, hikes, bikes, plays golf, tennis, skis, and takes dance classes, all at out of school facilities with instruction.

I have three kids, and am permanently skint, however. The vast majority of our expendable income goes on activities. Tis a choice, though.

Mo Shibi in the GB rowing mens eight was talent spotted at a London comprehensive - rowing is not just for posh kids. It takes commitment and talent from child along with a lot of parental support. Our local swimming club gives discounts for those on low income but even at club level the child /young person still needs to be going five times a week for a couple of hours to have a hope of reaching regional standard let alone national standard

I don't think it's just parental support, but also motivation. If you are surrounded by people who do well, or if a lot of people from your school have done well, you're going to have higher standards.

ivykaty44

So how do you change culture to enable children to take part in sport regardless of their background?

First you have to get rid of the 'all-must-have-prizes' culture that infests the state system.

You can't create winners if nobody's allowed to win, and nobody's allowed to win because that 'damages the self-esteem' of the losers.

The private school system has a winning attitude, the state (and yes, I'm painting broad-brush here) doesn't.

How do you change culture to take part in sport regardless of background?

Get rid of private schools. Simple.

PE may be a compulsory part of the curriculum, but most state primary school teachers have no specific training in how to teach PE, whereas in private schools primary pupils are taught PE by specialist teachers. I'm a primary teacher and I will freely admit that I struggle to teach PE. I wasn't a sporty child and I have to look up all but the most basic rules of most team games that I teach. And yet I'm expected to teach skills that I don't have myself.

What's not to understand Ivy?

As I thought about answering your thread I realised that Xenia may have meant 50% of medalists by saying 50% of Olympians and that I was no longer sure that she was misleading people.

Geography+money+parental input + apptitude seems to be the mportant combination to me. Harking back to Chris Hoy, he lived in Edinburgh, the only city in Scotland at the time with a velodrome, if he had lived in Aberdeen he might have stuck to BMX.

Madwoman I'd be pretty motivated to get up at 5am to go skiing :o I'd do it every day (dodgy knees notwithstanding). But that's my point. It's not necessarily how cold or how hot it is. It's just that it's unrelenting rain/wind/drizzle and it's largely unpredictable. My MiL grew up a ski bum because she lived in the alps and skiied to school from the age of 5 on massive wooden skis because there was frankly no other way of getting there in winter. Here she'd have been on the bus. I know which I'd prefer though I'm sure the bus trip would have been easier.

yellowraincoat that would be my preferred method too :o