Why do so many of our olympic athletes come from public school?

[ivykaty44]

and what would you do to change it?

Other countries are far more scientific and methodical (and no, it's not just the chinese). They look at all the kids, aged say 6, and Id those with the physical attributes to do well at particular sports and then train them.

We follow the more amateur approach in general

And none of our local private schools have scholarships for sporty types - maybe it's just a few of the 'big names' who do? (No idea)

Anyway, let's not forget this just replicates the situation in every other field - politics and banking standing as prime examples

Our country is effectively run along caste lines, it's just we tend not to think of it that way

Other countries are far more scientific and methodical (and no, it's not just the chinese). They look at all the kids, aged say 6, and Id those with the physical attributes to do well at particular sports and then train them.

We follow the more amateur approach in general

And none of our local private schools have scholarships for sporty types - maybe it's just a few of the 'big names' who do? (No idea)

Anyway, let's not forget this just replicates the situation in every other field - politics and banking standing as prime examples

Our country is effectively run along caste lines, it's just we tend not to think of it that way

HipHopSkipJumpomous yes it is the public school I mentioned earlier up the thread with the delicious facilities for sport sorry it just made me giggle so much home here.

dd went to the track in Cardiff - she was petrified but gave it a go and enjoyed. if you want to do track though you need a track bike you can't ride your road bike as it has gears and brakes!

There is the time involved too. At least one parent and the DC have to be able to afford live without working for years to get to the very top. Again correlated with wealth.

One parent I know send DD to private school, pays for coaches to coach at the local club and takes her DD every day. The parent does not work and travels round the country all summer to tournaments.

This is more to do with wealth than private schools.

Ellen MacArthur is from a fairly modest background, too.
I know she's not an Olympian, but You get my gist. Even champion sailors can be ordinary folk.
Off to find that Bike Porn thread :)

Most velodromes provide bikes, including child sizes.
Many provide helmets, too.
Many sailing clubs provide wetsuits & all basic gear.
DC cycle club provides decent race bikes for anyone who turns up; unfortunately they run the only regular coaching sessions in the county, and most the actual race events are at least 1.5 hour drive away :(.
I think most clubs of any sort provide some basic equipment for newbies.

Enough to get talent spotted, if parents are in the position to spend weekends travelling around the country to events afterwards.

My eldest nephew rides competitively and Wiggo is way off the mark. It cost a small Fortune to take get to that level. DN is so good at it that he may end up
Being selected to train at the velodrome here in manchester. We have said we'll assist with accommodation because then its one less expense for his family.

So obviously money is vital as well as family support.

Too many state schools do not encourage or recognise competitive sport. I know a young girl who was selected to play at county level in her field and school pulled a face about her taking a day off!

Venn diagram

More to the point, why do they then not tend to do very well at the Olympics?

This has been the subject of much discussion in our office over the last week. There are two of us, a Kiwi and an Aussie amongst the staff and it is obvious that we have had far more opportunities when we were children to play a wide variety of sports. Partly this is cultural. On any given Saturday during the season, you can find in any secondary school, the netball courts heaving with competition. The whole family go and the whole family play. There are men's teams, womens teams, mixed teams and teams for children. Even if you are really crap at a sport there will be a team for you. Netball is the most popular sport in NZ in terms of players, but the same is true of many other sports. School playing fields are utilised by teams of all sports. Playing sport is relatively cheap

Back when I was at home I remember that fundraising was relatively easy. For example, by law a percentage of the profits from gambling machines had to be recycled through 'good causes'. In practise this meant all we had to do was brand our T Shirts with the local pub's logo and we had enough money to buy equipment and subsidise travel to competitions. For national competitions, the players from the home teams paid a levy which was used to subsidise the travel for the teams coming from the furthest away. We also billeted away teams so they didn't have to pay for accommodation.

But mostly it's about the culture. Socialising is often done in the sports clubs instead of pubs. There's no shame in bei g crap at a sport, there's merely a team for you. The first triathlon I did for example, was a women only one. There were prize categories for mother and daughter teams, the over 80's, lactating mothers etc. it's this culture of just having a go that allows countries like mine with a small population to over perform on the world stage. In my last year in NZ for example, I played my main sport, where I was at rep level. I also swum, played canoe polo, touch rugby and netball. My colleague, an Aussie tells me the local lawn bowls club had DJs on weekends. She said it was a pretty surreal experience bowling to trance music, but it was a hell of a way to get the younger generation playing the sport.

My daughter is 10. At school her choices in sport are football (where the implication is it does not matter because football is really a boy's game) and tennis which she hates. As a result she desn't have anything like the interest in sport I have, despite my best efforts.

Tom Daley was given a substantial scholarship from Plymouth College. A boy at dcs school was given a sports scholarship to a local private school and his brother got a music one.

Tom Daley is a bit different though isn't he as he was bullied at state school for being so clever and therefore moved to the private/public system to avoid this.

Lots of reasons many of which are to do with finance. Many of the sports that we are doing very well in require a financial input or access to sporting facilities that you don't find in inner city areas, for example equestrian and rowing.

I know a few state educated pupils who potentially have a great future in front of them in rowing but we live in quite an affluent area . They also attend a school which feels under little pressure from league tables do they allow then to have time off for competitions etc.

At the school that I teach at we have quite a few talented sportspeople and they do mainly come from more affluent backgrounds, this has enabled them to pay for equipment and take time to ferry them to various events.

Lots of schools are also losing their sporting facilties if they ever had them in the first place. The school I teach in is able to access decent sums of money from parental contributions as well as the LEA and therefore we have facilities that come close to some of those in the independent sector ( but not Millfield!) however we have become a victim of our own success and are so oversubscribed that we are expanding , this may cost us some of our sporting facilities which make us so popular with parents .

I also think that very sporty teachers can be attracted to schools like Millfield, and may be less likely to apply to your typical comp. This in turn limits the sporting opportunities offered to the pupils . Out students access sports that may be seen as more expensive such as sailing because of the staff employed. This has built us a reputation and therefore we attract other sorry staff who can offer alternative sports.

Many public schools also have a culture of working weekends when lots of sports happens, when I worked in one I was happy to give up weekend time as my marking workload was lower ( due to smaller class sizes) and I had longer holidays . Now I have children and work longer hours over a longer period of time I am less likely to give up my weekends - although I still do so a few times a year.

They offer sports scholarships to attract pupils who show early promise.

They prioritise competitive sport, timetabled and extra curricular.

They strongly encourage everyone to play at least one sport.

They have A, B, C etc Teams so that pupils of all abilities have the opportunity to play competitively against other teams of similar ability.

Once a talent is spotted, they - and the parents - have the time, money and skills to support it.

There is a link on the website of DD's state school that says 'extra curricular sport' but when you click on it it just tells you the opening hours of the nearby leisure centre - they don't offer a single opportunity to do sport, unless you make one of their teams (one team in each sport only).

What Slug said about her DD's limited choices just confuses me so much.
DD is 10 & clubs at her school include:

Boy's football, Girl's football, field hockey, netball, cross-country (she excels at).

Plus she's had specialist coaching in school time, thoroughly enjoyed: footie, basketball & cricket. The school swim lessons are a bit pants, admittedly, but she was scouted there for local competitive club, nonetheless.

In y6 she can go to surfing club for a few sessions.

This is a very ordinary state primary in a semi-rural area.

I do think that although we may think of ourselves as being quite laid back at sport and that we are not as competitive as other countries . There is a feeling, particularly for girls/ women that sport is only for the talented. Sadly many of us may not be that talented at the traditional sports that schools offer but I suspect most of us have a sport in which we could do well.

I do think that primary schools need to look at how they treat sport, all of my children have been sporty and have been very frustrated by non competitive sports or sports day teams in which individuals cannot shine.

I think you are right about it being about the culture - at public school it is culture it is expected you will take part in sport and there is plenty to choice from. School sort out matches and training so nt even parents need to get involved.

At state school it is not expected that you take part in sport and for soem the whole place of PE or games is hide and wag it or don't put in any effort.

Looking at the US tema at the olympics they have done well - they are expected to take part at college, sport again is part of the culture when you go to college.

I don't like the Chinese system, either, they treat their young recruits a lot like cannon fodder (rather disposable). The common complaint by coaches from other countries make is that the Chinese athletes are all pushed extremely hard, and if injuries occur the injured are summarily pushed aside because they have so many other up-and-coming talents. So yeah, cutthroat system results in very elite results. Rather Spartan, I guess.

Remember in 2008 the discussions about how brutal (plenty of physical punishment, too) the Chinese youth development squads were? Parents insisting that their children be pushed harder & harder?

it depends on the sport.
Rowing, sailing, fencing Yes
Football, boxing, athletics less so

I'm trying to think what the cheapest sport to participate in is... I suppose running but even then you need decent shoes to do it at any level (didn't stop the Masai warriors doing the London marathon though :o)

I think football is probably an exception, I don't know about boxing. I also think that because people associate a lot of money with football they may be more willing to make whatever sacrifices are needed.

I come from a strong athletics family and there is still a commitment in terms of time which has financial implications .

So how do you change culture to enable children to take part in sport regardless of their background?

I didn't do no sport at US college (Uni). Not in high school, really, either. Got sneered at by my High School coach for even trying to run a complete mile. And PE was only compulsory up to the end of 10th grade. We didn't have swim lessons in school, either, although we had plenty of lectures about what to do in a Rip Tide (I never learnt to swim properly until I was an adult).

Look at how bad obesity is among US teens. Most of them aren't doing much sport.

headfairy - running is probably one of the cheapest - yes a pair of spikes are around 40 pounds and membership to a track around 12 pounds - so for a year 1 pound per week roughly

Making sport easy and cheap for families . Some areas have free swimming sessions for children, when I was on one of my maternity leaves and we were skint I made great use of those for my son. I discovered that he loved swimming and therefore when we had a little more money he started swimming lessons and he now swims with a club.

Using school facilities at weekends and evenings .

A wider range of sports in schools so that more of us find the sport that we love .

More cycle lanes.

Encouraging schools to share facilities from both sectors .

Continuing to " big up" our athletes so they removable inspirational role models.