So how much would you pay for milk?

[IWanders]

All the articles on the news is making me think, if the supermarkets put the price of milk up how much would you be happy to pay? I don't like the thought of harming our dairy industry and making more families struggle.

Personally I would be happy as long as milk didn't go above say £3.50 on 6 pints which is the size I buy.

It would mean having to cut back on other things to compensate but I am curious as to how much others think milk should cost?

I don't mind paying up to £2 for 4 pints.

I buy 24 pints a week (yes I did say 24 between 2 of us!!!)

We drink milk more than we drink water. I don't like the thought of farmers struggling but at the moment we're on the bread line so I can only afford so much.

Flatpackhamster BBC Farming Today link

I don't have time to listen to the program, but from the synopsis I can see that there's one complaining that he can't get in to a farmer's market. Yes, that's how it goes. He needs to get together with some other producers and start up his own.

Why shouldn't markets be put on a commercial footing? The ones run around here aren't charities, and they shouldn't be treated as a 'social good'. There's a very poor market near me which the council has run in to the ground because the council is incompetent, and several very good markets run by enthusiastic private-sector workers.

It's not a market if you don't allow sellers in is it. It's a cartel. It it is a FARMA approved affair then fine otherwise it is just deceptive marketing trading off a false family friendly locally produced image.

Are you aware that the nature of a radio or television news program is they interview one typical example of the many and the reason they choose to cover the story is as it is a typical and topical happening not a one off whinger.

I wrote to Waitrose which is where I get my milk from. This is their reply. "Whilst we have lowered the price to our customers, we haven't lowered the price we pay our farmers.

Waitrose has continued to invest in value and we are continually reviewing our prices to ensure we remain competitive with the market.

We are committed to long term relationships with our suppliers and have been working with our dedicated dairy farmers for over 12 years to ensure a sustainable supply of high quality milk - and that we pay a fair price to our farmers. In this challenging time we will continue to support and work closely with our farmers to ensure they receive a sustainable milk price."

Any chance we can hear from one of Waitrose's suppliers? Any farmers here?

I think Waitrose has its own supplies from Ireland ie they own the farms?

Waitrose and M&S pay top price for milk atm

waitrose is currently paying 28.1 ppl with an annual avaerage price of 31.05 ppl

What I don't get is that people will pay more for water in a plastic bottle (including whichever brand it was that just bunged tap water in) than they pay for milk.

Its easy to blame it on inefficiencies - but I know alot of dairy farmers, and they are a hard working bunch. Large automated systems doesn't necessarily lead to more profits - the cash to be paid upfront / loaned would eat away any profits. Even if you made a major capital investment, and therefore wrote it off as depreciation you have to make a profit once every 6 years if you are in a partnership.

Off the top of my head I think I was told that one of those super efficient systems where they all have tags and can be milked whenever the cow wants costs approx £300k and services 50 cows - multiply it from there. Apparently your labour costs still don't decline that much - and anyway we need rural employment. Oh and the folk I know that are struggling milk over 400 cows. Not the small scale which used to exist round here when I was a kid, when people used to milk 20 or so and 100 was alot.

At end of the day, people want to go for walks in pretty countryside, and its the farmers that keep it that way.

Oh and I'd pay more per litre for milk than Perrier water - one is collected in a bottle - one requires a cow, feed, care, vets bills, milking, and the milk to be kept cold prior to collection before off to processing.

Oh, we farm beef and sheep by the way, not dairy. But I buy goats milk for DD and pay £1.40 a litre for goats milk - of which the goat farmers gets 53.5p a litre. Yes its more intensive and niche, hence the higher price, but I doubt they are making huge profits either.

Also bear in mind that a farmer who works bloody hard if they are lucky will be able to take an employee on at around £15k a year. They get less than their employees - and sometimes nothing. Forty years ago they used to make a good profit and be way more profitable than the meat industry. Some are living from the savings of their parents, as they don't want to be the ones to lose the family farm. You get soaked to the skin, covered in shit, kicked by the odd animal, have to go and see the chiropractor to get your back put in ....and folks wonder why farmers are in one of the highest suicide brackets.

Costs keep going up in everything that supplies to agriculture, but because of RPI, prices are kept unofficially high - and unlike the French we're no good at striking! As an example a new and improved version of our tractor which we've had for 20 years is now 100k! We bought ours for about 17k.

Also ask yourselves what you want to eat - the nutritional value from high yield intensive farms isn't often as good - a large scale free range egg farm, may technically meet requirements, but alot of the hens never make it outside. Even your posh beef from certain places, may actually have been fed on ready meals or sweets - apparently - I was gobsmacked! Me - I like grass fed, and we eat our own, so we know what's gone in it!

oops - should read - your back put back in!

Oh and if you pour the milk away you'll get prosecuted by Environmental Health!

Another oops - I meant prices are kept artifically low - you can tell I've spent all day bouncing on a tractor in a vain attempt to make hay and my brain is now addled!

Sorry folks!

Isindebetterplace

Or as another viewpoint, we could consider just how bad for us the whole milk industry is..

^www.vegetarian.org.uk/campaigns/whitelies/whiteliesreport.pdf^

I'm beginning to suspect that veganism/vegetarianism is as much of a religion as anything else. So many of you feel the need to proselytise to us unconverted heathens about the supposed superiority of your existence.

Thanks, ohmygosh. FWIW, I don't buy bottled water. Always buy Waitrose milk, too, usually organic. Same with butter, and ordinary cheese. I used to get greentop milk at the farm gate, but the farmer retired and new guy wouldn't sell; I prefer unpasteurised if I can get it and like to make my own butter and fresh cheese. However, I wouldn't have been doing all that with two small children...

I gather too that Starbucks and Costa are a part of the problem?

I would pay more for organic British milk. I don't look at the cost of milk, I just buy when I need it from our local supermarket (can't buy from local shops as I have found their fridges don't work and the milk goes off quickly)

We aren't well off, but aren't counting every penny (well at the end of the month we are!) Squeezed middle maybe, both public sector workers.

I only buy organic as I have had breast cancer linked to oestrogen and don't want myself or my daughter to be exposed to any more hormones than I need be. This might not be scientific, but it fells right.

Don't drink milk. No other adult animal drinks milk. It is not good for you (although I suppose it will be better than Coca Cola). Best to drink water instead.

Xenia

Don't drink milk. No other adult animal drinks milk.

No other adult animal builds cities or goes in to space either.

It is not good for you (although I suppose it will be better than Coca Cola). Best to drink water instead.

Yes, all those dreadful vitamins and minerals present in milk. How awful.

There are many many better sources of milk being bad but here is the first one I found saveourbones.com/osteoporosis-milk-myth/

I am just stating the anti dairy point. We only started drinking milk about 9000 years ago so had abotu 1.5 millions of years with no dairy at all so we are not suited for dairy. There are plenty of other ways to get what you need and which do not damage you as much.

I suspect the fetish with dairy has a lot to do with the current levels of obesity. Asian cultures which have historically been dairy free have far fewer problems with obesity (and do not seem to lack an 'evolutionary advantage) but since globalisation introduced western dietary fashions they have seen health problems multiply - particularly health problems familiar in western cultures but previously unknown in their own cultures.

Milk is pretty good for the Maasai tribespeople. They live on it, really.

While it isn't suitable for all people, it's been a part of the staple of western diets for too long to be considered "bad".

Thumb, I don't agree. We had 1.5 millions years as hunger gatherers and only about 10,000 keeping animals including for milk. This is a really important topic which goes way beyond just milk. We also lost 6 inches in height when we moved from mostly eating meat to mosting eating wheat. It has not done us any good at all. If you examine skeletons from 20,000 years ago and compare with 5000 there is a huge difference. We have then also accelerated the process of physical decline in the last 50 years through our now even worse diet.

I am never ill. I eat meat, fish, eggs, veg, fruit. I drink water. I feel good and am very happy. I do sometimes have a bit of butter on veg.

The time period issue is crucial - paleo good, neolithic not so good.

I pay £2 for 4l at Asda. That seems quite reasonable to me.

Xenia

^There are many many better sources of milk being bad but here is the first one I found saveourbones.com/osteoporosis-milk-myth/^

That's amazing. A person with a degree made a website.

I am just stating the anti dairy point.

And how lucky you did! We've hardly had a single sanctimonious vegan appearing on the thread to tell us milk-users how awful we are.

We only started drinking milk about 9000 years ago so had abotu 1.5 millions of years with no dairy at all so we are not suited for dairy.

Well we only started using vaccines in the last 120 years. We had no vaccines against lethal diseases for 1.5 million years. So we are not suited for vaccines.

We only started driving cars in the last 80 years. We had no cars before that. So we are not suited for driving cars.

There are plenty of other ways to get what you need and which do not damage you as much.

And they all rely on modern technology. And as you pointed out above, we haven't had modern technology so you don't need it.

Thumb, I don't agree. We had 1.5 millions years as hunger gatherers and only about 10,000 keeping animals including for milk. This is a really important topic which goes way beyond just milk.

We also lost 6 inches in height when we moved from mostly eating meat to mosting eating wheat.

Want to show me a source for that?

It has not done us any good at all. If you examine skeletons from 20,000 years ago and compare with 5000 there is a huge difference.

Which skeletons?

We have then also accelerated the process of physical decline in the last 50 years through our now even worse diet.

Which is why we're now a foot taller than we were 200 years ago? That's got to be the most unusual definition of 'physical decline' I've ever heard.

I am never ill. I eat meat, fish, eggs, veg, fruit. I drink water. I feel good and am very happy. I do sometimes have a bit of butter on veg.

I think you ought to contact that lady in the website you linked to, because if there's two of you saying it, then you've pretty much debunked the entire scientific establishment.

The time period issue is crucial - paleo good, neolithic not so good.

What are your criteria for 'not so good'? Which skeletons?

And people like me would just stop BUYING milk at all, even for their DC's, if it got ANY dearer. Not because we want to see farmers go under, but because there is not one penny more 'give' in our budget.

Only the comfortable can have ethics. The poor can't afford to.