Private schools have lost their moral purpose - says head of Wellington

[RelaxedAndCalm]

here

"Leadership from the independent sector has been sadly lacking and it has failed to provide an inspiring moral vision for us in the 21st century."

I wonder if this will lead the Charities Commission to rethink their stance re charitable status.

We shoudl villify those who choose not to pay fees when they might do so. Therein lies the moral wrong. Given prviate schools are almost universally much better too those mothers choosing not to work or pay fees are doubly in the wrong as they deny their children a better education too

I don't believe in private schools, but I don't object to people using them if they want to spend their money in that way-I believe in freedom of choice. However -even if I earned a huge amount I would send them to a good state comprehensive.
I am certainly not working to pay school fees!! I work at useful jobs that are interesting to me.
Since my DCs have been right through the comprehensive system and had their first choice of career it has saved a lot of money. Had all 3 gone to top private schools they would all have done exactly the same thing, but our quality of life would have been poor.
I would abolish charitable status. Since only 7% of DCs go to private schools I don't think that it would be a burden.

Yes, I disagree with 2 and 3, and partly with 5.

Q: "5. The state sector is a shambles and is in dire need of proper funding and management".

Um- my DSs comp gets:
5 GCSEs, A-C -97%
5 GCSEs, A-C inc maths and eng 88%
Eng bacc (figure for 1st year of its intro, as in 'retrospectively')- 55%

How oh how can this all-comers state comprehensive cease to be such a shambles? How oh how can they possibly compete with the nearest, selective private, a snip at £12,500 pa, that gets:

81%
71%
39%

But it's OK! No doubt they get tonnes of music/drama/sport (isn't that the holy triumverate? )

The state sector is highly, but highly variable.

For me, the choices boiled down to the following

5 GCSEs, A-C - 100% or 48% (the latter being full of fake GCSEs)
Eng bacc - 100% or 2%
%age of A& A* at GCSE - 78% or not published (but thought to be around 5%)

Plus tonnes of music/drama/sport which is not on offer at the local comp and minus who knows what percentage of ASBOs.

You choose, matey. Those were my choices. You choose.

Exactly Erabus. A friend's son has just got a first from Bristol-all from the comprehensive-why pay out all that money for the same thing? He isn't unusual.

I do think private schools are encouraged to help where they can to show charitable status, though. I think people might be surprised at what they would lose. Two examples I know of.

1. DD1 and DD2 are home eduated. It's a nightmare trying to take GCSEs as a home educator because nowhere will let you take them. Not one state school in my nearest 5 counties (yes, counties!) would agree that we could sit exams there. All we are talking about is someone sending the entry off (we pay the fee) and letting them sit in the room with their students to work the GCSE paper. State schools will not do this, as a rule, as there is nothing in it for them. But a local private school has done it for us for free. They put in their time, post out results etc to us, provide water bottles etc on the exam day, and provide invigilation, even when their students don't have exams, and have charged us not a penny. Other private schools agreed to, but not one state.

1. I organise music exams. The exam board is run as a not-for-profit organisation. Trying to find commercial venues for the exams is a nightmare because they charge a fortune - as do state schools. But another local private school let us have their venue for up to 6 weekends a year - for free. They even tune the piano for us. There are private schools all over the country doing this for little or no cost. Without this the cost of music exams, for ordinary parents as well as rich ones, would be much, much more.

I've never had a child at private school, by the way. I went to the local comp myself. When my two were at school they were at the local state - we couldn't afford private. Of course their main aim is to make money by educating children of the well off. But I'm not blind to the other work they do - and even small things add up and make a difference. These are just two I happen to know of. There must be many more - so much goes on behind the scenes.

Hopefullyrecovering

I don't think you are being fair to the contributors to this thread. Or in fact acknowledging the unprecedented degree of consensus. I think we all agree the following:

1. Independent schools have no business advocating moral leadership to state schools.

2. Charitable status should be abolished immediately

3. Serious consideration should be given to putting VAT on school and university fees.

4. The headmaster in question is not focussing on the things that he ought.

5. The state sector is a shambles and is in dire need of proper funding and management.

Now, does anyone disagree with the above?

Are you serious? I disagree with at least three, and possibly four of them.

1. Disagree for reasons outlined above

1. Disagree. Has anyone considered, if we force people out of the private sector and into state because parents can no longer afford it, what it will cost the taxpayer? Every child in private or home education is saving the taxpayer an absolute fortune.

Music - I'd LOVE it if all our local private schools closed and the nearest comp was flooded with bright, hard working and talented children. What a HUGE difference that would make to the quality if my children's education to be sharing a classroom with articulate and ambitious children. Life changing for my kids I would say.

But it's more important to protect the privileges of the rich - to be educated away from oiks.

Only about 7% of school age kids are at private schools. So not a huge financial impact!!

Music - except in the cost that arises from having an education system which is strictly stratified along class lines and where the most disadvantaged children will continue to be damaged by being schooled in educational class ghettoes.

It might not be a huge financial impact (although I'd disagree on that) but it would have a huge local impact. We simply don't have enough state school places, a huge number of state schools are over subscribed, and those that aren't are the failing ones.

Musicposy makes interesting points, I hadn't thought about the sort of stuff that private schools offer parents who home educate. I would have thought that alone makes them worthy of their charitable status.

It reminded me that one of the local private schools round here regualrly hosts the G&T extension days that state schools do, and another hosts the inter school tournaments of an extra curricular activity my ds's do. Thinking about it, my dc have been inside private schools quite a few times because of what they already offer state school pupils.

If private schools were banned the result would be even more intense competition for good state school places. House prices would be driven even higher in good catchemnt areas and private tutors would become the norm and exams to get into Grammar schools would be even more intense and there would be 200 children for each place.

Children from relatively poor families would have even less chance of a good state education. Some wealthy parents would set up their own schools and demand state funding to run them.

In short, banning private schools would make the social class and wealth segregation beween 'good' and 'bad' schools in the state sector.

It is there already- so another 7% is neither here nor there.

Put VAT on education ????

Would really like to remind some posters here of the "Cultural Revolution" in China.

Where does all this hatered for education is coming from? Sad times.

Lets hope some schools still teach history properly ..

For those private school bashers I can provide a good reading list - my be you should start with "The Animal Farm " - or it wasn't on the curriculum in your excellent state school producing such brilliant GCSE results?

Animal farm is a bit crass and lame, quite apart from having fuck all to do with private schools.

Has quite a lot to do with the mentality of those who think it's OK to deprive people of freedoms (like the freedom to educate their children independently) in the name of social engineering, as I recall, tho long time since I read it. So not wholly irrelevant...
I think also that simply looking at exam results in either sector - especially given the low standards now demanded by public examinations - is only part of the picture. Education is about more than a clutch of exam grades. My ds may very well not be capable of sitting an exam in his life. Doesn;t mean his education is not worth investing in. i feel a bit sorry for the children of people with such narrow outlooks, wherever they are educated, to be honest.

I fail to see what A nimal Farm has to do with private schools.

I am quite happy to have them - I just feel that it is a simple matter that if you have charitable status then you do something to deserve it!

If people can no longer afford the fees I am sure that we can manage to absorb the tiny percentage into state schools without a problem.

Public schools were originally there to train societal leaders and imbue them with a sense of duty.

They now train certain groups of people to adopt an "I'm all right Jack" attitude, ensuring they and their families are super served, often at the expense of others.

It's wrong.

(I am public school educated, btw).

You would think that the most privileged in society would be actively looking for ways to help the underprivileged - but sadly not.

Some of us do, but many of us have lost touch with our old schools because they have gone so feral.

My nursery fees for a run of the mil nursery full time is £10600 and the local grammar school fees are £10300 one benefits from charitable status one doesn't. Which one gives back locally to their community? And which one charges the local netball league fees to use pitches?

Which one is providing an essential service to working parents and which one is providing a luxury and therefore should arguably charge VAT.

A grammar school with fees?

That's the second time I've come across that particular confusion this week.

Yes 'grammar' in the title of a school does not denote it is a free school. It originally meant a school teaching classical languages but more recently an academically-oriented secondary school. There are a lot of fine fee paying 'grammar' schools. RGS in Newcastle, Manchester Grammar, Leeds Grammar etc