NatWest/RBS: Daily Mail is now playing the "race" card, I'm appalled!

[PoppyWearer]

I've just had the misfortune to see the Daily Mail online's front page and noticed that they are taking the angle on the NatWest/RBS banking problem that they employ IT staff in India.

I mean, seriously, that's appalling in this day and age.

ALL banks and IT companies employ staff in India because a) they are cheaper than staff in the UK, US and Europe and it's a way to keep costs down for shareholders and b) often the staff are better trained and qualified.

(I'm speaking as someone who used to recruit and manage IT staff in India and who has some knowledge of how banking IT operates.)

All of the quality control and management will still be in the UK.

I'm just at how they can get away with printing this rubbish.

(I know, I know, it's the DM, what should I expect, but I always have a glance so that I know what MIL has been reading and also for the sleb twaddle.)

FWIW, I'm not saying that what happened isn't terrible, but this....has nothing to do with it and is just irresponsible journalism.

Agreed

Standard behaviour from DM

I nearly bought it on Sunday as there was a voucher for a Liz Earle cleanser thing, but I just couldn't stoop that low

How is reporting the fact that the software fault has been traced to India racist?

The report is highlighting the way the bank have attempted to save money and cut corners by moving large parts of the operation to India.

This story has been reported in every other newspaper too - including your beloved Guardian.

Last I saw stephen hester was being interviewed from outside the RBS IT centre in Edinburgh.

Kind of indicating that is where the story was centred.

The Guardian has this to say:

"But Hester, who praised the bank's staff, faced criticism from the union Unite for the scale of job cuts he has embarked on since taking the helm after the 2008 bailout. David Fleming, national officer for Unite, said: "RBS management has slashed 30,000 staff, cut pay and decimated the pensions of those dedicated staff who are now working hard to resolve the problems."

Hester, in an interview with Sky News, insisted there was no evidence that job cuts or outsourcing were to blame. The main IT centre was in Edinburgh, said Hester, who has based himself in the Scottish capital rather than London for the coming days. The problem was caused by a botched systems upgrade last Tuesday, which caused a backlog at a bank that normally handles 10m payments a day. Other banks are also now receiving delayed information about transactions."

Which is in line with what I have seen in interviews as well.

Has the useless Stephen Hester explained how his incompetent immoral organisation made this mess?

Perhaps it is related to outsourcing vital services to India. Perhaps it isn't.

I'm not in the habit of defending the Daily Fail but pointing out that you have less control when services are outsourced to another country is not racist.

So if the boss of a company says "the IT centre is here in Edinburgh and this problem is the responsibility of the Edinburgh IT centre" it's not racist for papers and people to firmly point their finger at some Indian people?

Righty-ho

pointing out that there are inconsistencies in the story and that it's widely believed the fault stems from India is not racist, no.

Where are the inconsistencies?

All of the statements that I have seen talk about Edinburgh.

When I worked at a call centre for a well known satellite tv company we always got customers who had hung up & redialled when they heard an Indian accent.

Some of the comments made to us...well you can imagine how pleasant they were.

Having said that quite a bit of our work was dealing with customers who had been misinformed about procedures leading to more problems and the issue not being fixed. Not the fault of our Indian colleagues who were not being trained correctly in our opinion. They also had to work in a paperless environment to prevent fraud which must have been nice, to know your employer already thinks that of you.

When I worked at a call centre for a well known satellite tv company we always got customers who had hung up & redialled when they heard an Indian accent.

Some of the comments made to us...well you can imagine how pleasant they were.

Having said that quite a bit of our work was dealing with customers who had been misinformed about procedures leading to more problems and the issue not being fixed. Not the fault of our Indian colleagues who were not being trained correctly in our opinion. They also had to work in a paperless environment to prevent fraud which must have been nice, to know your employer already thinks that of you.

The bank were heavily criticised for moving large parts of the operation to India - at the cost of British jobs - therefore making it unlikely that the bosses are going to own up to it having resulted in a massive cock-up.....that is what they're suggesting.

If the company had moved some of their IT division to a part of the UK with lower wages, would people be pointing the finger like this?

It is really bad.

It isn't bad - it's reporting on the biggest story of the week.

Really think the hand-wringing lefties are clutching at straws here.

'making it unlikely that the bosses are going to own up to it ....'

Exactly, Nancy.

The Union would say that wouldn't they.

They have no evidence whatsoever that the problem is the fault of the staff in India.

I find it strange that people look at the building in Edinburgh which is the RBS IT Centre and say oh well it must be the Indians Why would people do that I wonder? Hmmmmm..........

Nancy I suppose that depends what media you look to for your news. Certainly I have not seen it reported that it's the fault of the staff in India. I tend to watch the Ch4 news, and read the BBC on the internet. They have not blamed India AFAIK.

You have to sometimes admire how the DM can take a story and spin it so that it reads what they want you to think whilst just about staying on the right side of the law and JUST about be able to say they havent lied. It's a real art in my opinion.

The simple fact is that yes jobs have been offshored to India. Is that a problem? Well yes and no. The problems they've had are not because an Indian person may or may not have been pushing buttons. Instead because of the need to reduce costs, a lot of jobs have been moved to India around the same period of time with UK based people getting laid off.

What is more likely to have happened is that many of the experienced staff have left. The ones with such an indepth knowledge that they'd either not have made the mistake in the first place or have been able to recover much quicker. They've been replaced with lower cost yet highly skilled replacements who have mountains of documentation but not yet the experience.

My point is that it's not the fact the jobs have gone to India which is the issue but more the lack of experience of a large bunch of newbies.

The other thing which may have contributed to the delay in recovery is that culturally the Indian's are very reactive. What I mean is they are very good at following instructions and will follow them to the letter. Where they still have a lot to learn is to improvise, take risks and stand up to managers until they listen to their technical advice. From my time spent in India I found that you asked someone to do something wrong, they'd sit there stewing and worrying about it, trying their best to make it work before ultimately failing. Someone in the UK would probably say no to begin with and explain why.

Some people are saying that it is teh fault of management, and that some will not deserve a bonus.

Lord Oakeshott is pretty good. He seems to be right on a lot of issues.

But the entire IT dept is not in India.
They have a whole great building in Edinburgh. Which is where the people will be who were responsible for ordering and testing this software update.
The responsibility for this error lies with the people who did the final testing and teh people who signed it off for release. Who are pretty likely to reside in the IT building in Edinburgh.

This is really zenophobic/racist/whatever the word is. Really out of line.

I don't understand how people can't see that blaming the staff in India, rather than the staff in Edinburgh, when there is no evidence whatsoever whose fault it is, is just awful. And especially given that the company management are saying that the responsibility lies in the IT head office in Edinburgh.

'But the entire IT dept is not in India.'

But no one has said it is the entire fault of the Indian workers. Management here are to blame for not having robust enough procedures. This is not the fault of one individual.

'when there is no evidence whatsoever whose fault it is'

I expect that the Daily Mail knows much more about it than SardineQueen. I expect they have been speaking to union members and insiders.

Well you suspect this and you expect the other.

Fact is that lots of people seem very happy to point the finger at the staff in India due to their personal prejudices.

Bet Jimmy Carr is glad he keeps his money offshore, who's laughing now