The return of the O Level.

[hermionestranger]

Leaked reports suggest that the government is to scrap the GCSE from 2015, 2013 option takers will be the last year to take them.

I'm sorry it's the mail bug they were first on my twitter feed. I 'm on my phone so can't link properly.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2162369/Return-O-Level-Gove-shake-biggest-revolution-education-30-years.html

I started learning Latin back in November and was planning on taking the GCSE this summer- I decided not to do it afterall because I didn't think getting the GCSE would be worth it- but my teacher and I decided that an A/A would be quite doable in the time. You're given a list of vocab to learn! It'd take you a few hours to learn it, that's all. You can prepare for anything! I thought it was brilliant, for me....otherwise silly if you want to think that you've got a qualification worth bragging about in Latin (n.b. just in case to make it clear, I'm not saying that GCSEstudent* is bragging!).

at GCSE level, yes, science is a set of facts to be learned. then you get told at A level those facts were slightly wrong, and learn new ones. and then at degree level...you get told there are no facts, just theories, and you have to learn them in order to discover they are wrong....

Oh dear. Understanding scientific method is not soft. Nor is interpreting data. Or evaluating methodology. In fact, it was what science is. You don't get more basic than that.

What? They don't do calculus at GCSE?

I don't know anything about GCSEs. However, I don't think the maths my 8 year old is expected to do is easier than the maths I did at a similar age.

If GCSE's are really so easy, do you think I should start signing myself as Merrymouse, GCEd (O-level hons)? They didn't seem that much of a big deal at the time, but now I see that I was actually a genius.

"But Le Queen, this government has put paid to the idea of leaving school at 16 altogether! The less academic must find eduaction till 18."

Not this Government - it was the last one which introduced this, with a deferred start (to allow planningtime). It's about to happen, but it was a done deal long before the coalition.

I heard one report which suggested that pupils would take this new qualification when they are ready. That would be a good thing (though logistically chalengng in some schools).

And I like the idea of one exam board. This need not mean a constriction of the syllabus, as there could be equivalent options within each subject. And one commentator was talking about the return of calculus - when did that vanish?

The introduction of the GCSE and the NC were hallmarks of the Thatcher education policy. It is interesting to see that Labour and the Lib Dems tend now to support them, but it is the Tories who are seeking change.

As pointed out previously on this thread GCSEs don't really challenge or differentiate between the brightest children and ensuring this cohort are meeting their potential is vital if we are to compete with the rest of the world. I read that the highest earning 1% of the UK population pays 24% of all the taxes.

I dislike the term 'soft' subject. All subjects when taught to a decent standard can be tough and have very good academic merit and usefulness. The problem being that many aren't taught like this, so good course in the same subject are often unfairly sneered at....

It makes me laugh how people say that they managed to do a GCSE in a year - how easy is that! Yes, but are you 16 years old and studying for another 12 GCSEs at the same time? It's easy for adults to learn exam technique, but 16 year olds are still children and are learning how to do exams. GCSEs are the first really serious exams they do and it is a learning process that builds up to university.

I thought it was hilarious how they had on the radio the other day, a report saying that the coursework in A level maths was too easy and 'not fit for purpose'. My DD said - coursework in Maths? I have never done coursework - they don't know what they are talking about.

We are all being drawn into this political propaganda - it's all BS. Keep politics out of education!!

teachers will tell you they have got easier - however the actual workload for the student is the same.

Our DS did IGCE's on the whole. Very similar to the old O'level - exam based and more rigorous than I remember my O'Levels. DD doing similar. We are very pleased with that decision and relieved they are in the independent sector.

I don't know why people are concerned that returning to the old format O'Level will reintroduce two tiers. We have that already with NVQs and Level I, II and III qualifications. Hopefully this change will introduce rigour for the bright and more work based qualifications for those who lean towards more vocational subjects.

Hopeful that increased rigour will mean that there will be greater emphasis at primary level to achieve acceptable standards of literacy and numeracy.

Finally, surely it's more motivating to get a good mark in a more vocational tier than it is to get a very low graded GCSE that counts for nothing.

In a few years we might even realise that we need smaller schools and more differentiation because adults, men, women, children, teenagers are all different and one size doesn't fit all and can't meet the needs of all.

*LeQueen DS did 12 many IGCE's, some GCSE's (I got a bit confused) - 11 As (we have forgiven the A for maths now .

I have an inkling you're not a scientist LeQ. And I can assure you that there is not a specification that doesn't require familiarity with the periodic table. Perhaps not learning the thing off by heart, but that wasn't required for O level either. I did learn the first 20 elements by heart for A level, and still remember them, but you'll be glad to know learning huge swathes of information is still very much part of A level (however reluctant my sixth corners are to accept that...).

Carrying out an experiment and knowing what you can and can't do with the data us a skill that is very useful to have. People are bad at understanding data. That is an undesirable state of affairs for many reasons. More useful than knowing by heart that sodium has an atomic number of 11.

Calculus has been long gone from the GCSE syllabus, if it was ever even there. Wasn't in when my older brother did his 20 years ago.

I don't agree that science is just a list of facts to be learned, of course it isn't. But you do need to have some facts and knowledge at your fingertips. Yes in the 'real world' you can look things up if you've forgotten them, and that's easier to do than ever these days with the internet etc. But there has to be a basic level of knowledge and understanding otherwise you don't even know what you need to look up!

The term "rigour" makes my teeth itch.

What do people actually mean by it?

Could they save some money by just reusing the old O-level papers?

I think I might have some of mine in a drawer somewhere. Do you think Gove would like us all to send them back?

LeQ I completely agree wrt to the sheer volume of bits of paper children are expected to collect if they aren't to be branded failures. It's ridiculous.

I should point out that it is necessary to learn things for Science GCSEs. But it is also necessary to be able to apply the knowledge. Which is good, I think.

'GCSEs don't really challenge or differentiate between the brightest children and ensuring this cohort are meeting their potential is vital if we are to compete with the rest of the world.'

The shape sorter mentality and insistence on differentiation is going to continue to drag down British education. The democratic Finnish model has had excellent results for many years.

It doesn't make my teeth itch. It means attention to detail, providing a sound foundation, consistency, method. I like it.

Brilliant news!

Only problem is DS1 will be the first year to take the 'news O Levels' and I am worried that some teachers just will not make the transition between new and old systems and hence not prepare the pupils properly.

My twins are in Year 7, does this mean they will be sitting o levels/cse's?