The return of the O Level.

[hermionestranger]

Leaked reports suggest that the government is to scrap the GCSE from 2015, 2013 option takers will be the last year to take them.

I'm sorry it's the mail bug they were first on my twitter feed. I 'm on my phone so can't link properly.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2162369/Return-O-Level-Gove-shake-biggest-revolution-education-30-years.html

There's no need to exaggerate, chibi. Even people from exam boards have said that exams have been dumbed down. It's about facing the truth and doing something to reverse the decline.

Abitwobbly, I don't know about others but I definitely wasn't taught by PhD qualified teachers! I think the increasing standard of teaching definitely has something to do with the increase in high grades being awarded.

Interesting, noblegiraffe.

i was unaware that anone onvolved in setting exams had confirmed that yes, all exams were substantially easier. i don't always read the papers - can you point out who said this/roughly when this quote was released?

Chibi do you dispute that there is a huge and growing attainablity gap between state and private schools? Do you not think this is lamentable?

Instead of blaming and resenting the sector that achieves, perhaps we should be looking at the sector that underperforms and REQUIRING that they adopt the attitude and ethos of the achieving sector. Just a thought.

I am a governor and believe quite strongly that the state sector fails children. Bottom line. Left wing mentality: that life 'should' be fair. That all 'should' have prizes. That self-esteem is something that 'should' be a concern. That people shouldn't be 'offended' and 'feelings' should be taken into account.

'Should' is a neurotic word.

Private school attitude*: fit in, or fuck off. Do as you are told by your betters. Acknowledge that they are your betters. Take your telling offs on the chin with respect, and don't answer back. We know what you are capable of, GIVE IT TO US. Work hard, and try your best in all things. We will challenge you and demand of you every single day of your life. What you put in is what you get out. Do it.

And out of that ethos, they dominate UK society in all things and no amount of bitching, moaning, and quotas will change this fact. Funny, that.

I personally think this imbalance is wrong. And what is wrong, is the state sector. Being in both sectors, I notice: that state teachers mouth platitudes and are quite removed. That private teachers are quite firm, but make themselves available to their pupils in a way that state teachers simply are not. The words, and the actions are polar opposite.

*and India, and China.

Going back to Claig's point a few posts ago - are children more intelligent and hard working, or are exams easier? Those are not the only two alternatives. In the 1950s, what would have happened to a secondary modern school where only 20% of the children got a reasonable range of paper qualifications? Educational history is not my speciality, but I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't involve the full scale exodus and head rolling that would happen nowadays. If you prioritise these things with huge penalties for failure it's hardly surprising if the system changes to achieve those results at all costs. Surely that's why the league tables were introduced in the first place?

www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6187337

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11342847

i expect there is a whole host of reasons why there is a gap between attainment of pupils in the state and private sectors; it might possibly more complicated than 'state sector teachers are crap'.

i work in a fairly rarified evironment; i work in a highly selective secondary school. nearly all of my A level students go on to Russell Group Universities, or Oxbridge; i really don't need to be lectured about my lax standards, letting kids down, or why i ought to look the private sector for good practice

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1548607/New-science-A-levels-are-dumbed-down.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/columnists/article-362091/So-exams-arent-dumbed-Mr-Blair.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2071902/GCSE-exams-Edexcels-Steph-Warren-suspended-shes-caught-boasting-hidden-camera.html

claig, your tes link doesn't seem to be about how hard the questions are , or what content is covered, but about how raw marks get translated into grade, particularly when combining/weighting modules

as a teacher, i have no part to play in any of that. i can speak to the difficulty of the content i teach, and of the questions which are asked on exams, and i would say that they are not substantially different in terms of challenge to when I was at school, 20 years ago.

i can't vouch for other subjects, as, while i myself studied, i only know the syllabus content here insofar as it touches on and affect the teaching in my own area

And out of that ethos, they dominate UK society in all things

Is it the ethos that results in success or is it the fact that they are the children of the wealthy and well-educated, do you think? Many of whom have passed a selective entrance exam thus ensuring that only the academically able are put in front of the teachers in the first place.

i give up for real now. i teach an a level science, and i cannot imagine anyone taking and passing it, let alone getting an A, with no prior knowledge, as one of your links asserts

i would like to think that having studied my subject through to undergraduate level and beyond, and having taught the subject for just over a decade, i might vbe able to apreciate what consitutes a difficult question in my subject, and what doesn't. apparently not!

the world that some of you are describing just bears no resemblance to the one i work in

chibi, your subject may be different, but there are subjects where institutions like the Royal Society of Chemistry say that there has been dumbing down.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1225643/Sack-exam-chiefs-dumbed-science-says-Royal-Society-Chemistry.html

i have been reading ofqual's report into the subject content and exams in my subject. my exam board did not apparentlt change in terms of demand between 2003 and 2008

i haven't gotten to the bit about exam questions yet though

soverylucky I agree that the teaching is exactly the same at private school. I went to a private school and I think the biggest advantage was that more parents were interested in the education of their child(ren). At the state primary school I went to half of the class didn't do reading each night. It wasn't the fault of the children but that of their parents. Once at private school reading, spelling and times tables were seen by all parents to be important skills. As a result the children tended to have much better exam results because parents made sure their children did their reading and learnt spellings/multiplication tables.

The assisted places scheme resulted in many of my class at secondary school believing all they had to do was attend the school to do better in life. It drove me nuts and I was told by one girl from my class at a reunion that I have only done better because I was born into privilage. This was not true at all. The difference was that I had parents who set high expectations while their parents didn't. It was their parents who let their children believe that by attending a private school that their futures would automatically be better.

They forget that I pushed myself to go to a RG university by getting good grades in harder A'Levels. While they all went on their ski trip I was at home revising for my A'Levels. To graduate debt free I worked through term and each holiday and moved to London when I graduated because there weren't any jobs close to home. I then got professionally qualified, moved 3000 miles, changed careers and am getting professionally qualified in that too. They went to former polytechnics, did soft subjects and moved back home when they graduated. They did menial work until they got a job working for the council or as a social worker. Now they wonder why I earn more than them?!?

IMO, parents who set expectations for their children tend to do better than those who don't. I must have been taught by more than 50 teachers and there was only one teacher who was awful. Funnily enough she was my English teacher at the private secondary school I attended.

I know that Physics A-level doesn't contain any calculus any more so students don't need maths A-level to study physics. I don't know when this change happened but I think it's a shame.

'I know that Physics A-level doesn't contain any calculus any more so students don't need maths A-level to study physics.'

Wow, that is incredible. I put money on it that it was during the New Labour years.

ok, exam results from the same ofqual report comparing 2003 and 2008 in my subject showed less than or equal to 3% difference in the percent of students attaining each grade between those years; some grades had 1% or less diffrenece between those attaining the grades. (this is A level i am referring to)

this could be explained by a radical shift in how UMS points ae related to raw marks, and grade boundaries etc.

Unless we face reality and admit what is happening before our eyes, it is only going to get worse. MPs were claiming bath plugs and moats for years, before it all came out into the open. It has to be faced before it's too late.

'ok, exam results from the same ofqual report comparing 2003 and 2008'

that is all within the New Labour period. Are there any figures that can be compared before their era?

anyway, my basic take on this is that there is room for (and a need for) a conversation about what we want qualifications to be for, and what exams are supposed to demonstrate about the pupils who take them - are they to flag up who is clever? to prepare students for further study at university?to rank them amongst their peers?

i think 'grr everything was better and more difficult before' isn't all that helpful, particularly in a context where the expectation is that all pupils (regardless of academic ability) will attend school until they are 18

This stuff is just shocking, considering that this is about education and equipping an entire generation to compete in the world

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1166914/Physics-A-level-easy-fails-prepare-students.html