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The return of the O Level.

827 replies

hermionestranger · 20/06/2012 23:46

Leaked reports suggest that the government is to scrap the GCSE from 2015, 2013 option takers will be the last year to take them.

I'm sorry it's the mail bug they were first on my twitter feed. I 'm on my phone so can't link properly.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2162369/Return-O-Level-Gove-shake-biggest-revolution-education-30-years.html

OP posts:
kernowbysvycken · 23/06/2012 10:39

I can't comment particularly on subjects other than English, but by whose measure are O levels easier than GCSEs? Looking at this English O Level paper from the Guardian I would argue that actually in a lot of ways it's easier than the current English GCSE. There are more questions but a lot of them are basic information retrieval and don't really ask students to do analysis in any depth. The student is given line numbers to help them locate relevant parts of the text which they don't get in the GCSE.

Furthermore the O Level gives excerpts of texts to write about, which is the same as the current Lit GCSE, none of this 'learning quotes' nonsense that people claim they had to do for O Level. I am sure that I read up-thread someone posting that students take annotated texts into exams for GCSE? Well, not for AQA they don't (this is the most popular exam board for English in the country I think). Texts have to be completely clean and students do still have to be able to remember roughly where to go in the novel for their quotes.

The English GCSE has just been re-vamped so that coursework is all done by controlled assessment, under exam conditions, in the classroom. Unless you are very unscrupulous then you cannot cheat and the controlled assessment has meant that actually, students have largely stopped doing the very formulaic, teacher led essays that they did under the legacy syllabus.

IMO results are improving because schools are improving and teaching is improving (and we are all getting more canny about exams). You cannot be an outstanding teacher if you just teach to the test. Maybe other countries are improving faster than us but at what cost to their students and their teachers? In South Korea for example students are encouraged to work extremely long hours which, to me, does not make for a happy teenagehood.

Finally, all this is probably academic anyway. The tories have got to get their proposals past the lib dems, through parliament, past lords and past the unions. All before 2014? I doubt it.

claig · 23/06/2012 10:47

'The student is given line numbers to help them locate relevant parts of the text which they don't get in the GCSE.'

Is that because there are just two lines in a GCSE? Have you got a GCSE example that we can compare it to?

noblegiraffe · 23/06/2012 10:49

From what I read it doesn't require an act of parliament so if Gove still wants it after the consultation period it just goes through.

claig · 23/06/2012 10:50

Is it just me, or have the Guardian made it deliberately difficult to read the 'O' level paper in full size text?

claig · 23/06/2012 10:52

The Guardian's GCSE maths example is shockingly easy for a 16 year old.

DilysPrice · 23/06/2012 10:54

That O level paper sounds a lot like the one that the bottom set in our school sat - no compulsory essays, very little requirement to know the text as a whole.
The board the top set sat required you to write essays about the text without extracts, and yes you did have to memorise a whole bunch of quotations.

claig · 23/06/2012 10:54

' Write the number 1345 in words.'

That is Key Stage 2, possibly even Key Stage 1

noblegiraffe · 23/06/2012 10:55

Claig, the Guardian's GCSE maths example (I really should write to complain) has inexplicably only selected easier questions from the paper and missed off all the A and A* questions. In addition, the question paper is from last year. The syllabus has been changed since then and this year's papers are harder. It's a dreadful article.

claig · 23/06/2012 10:55

We used to do that in reception, and they tell us that standards haven't slipped

noblegiraffe · 23/06/2012 11:00

claig standards haven't slipped in that respect, merely everyone sits GCSE maths and therefore it has to cater for all abilities. If that sort of question didn't appear on old papers that's because students of low ability or with SEN simply were ignored under the old system.

LeQueen · 23/06/2012 11:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

claig · 23/06/2012 11:05

But noblegiraffe, with questions like that, no wonder so many pass. That is much too easy for a 16 year old. Can someone link to teh equivalent exam for a 16 year old in Singapore. If the bar is set at that level in this country, no wonder we are in limbo.

NiceHamione · 23/06/2012 11:06

I don't teach maths but many gcse papers are designed to be accessed by a range of abilities and the write 1345 out is clearly aimed at a f/ g grade student . It does not represent the paper a a whole. I teach students with moderate learning difficulties and students who will go on to Oxbridge.

The equivalent question on my exam might be " what is an abortion"

claig · 23/06/2012 11:06

No wonder we read about 8 year olds passing GCSE maths. Soon 8 year olds will be getting first class degrees. It has to stop. Gove has to get a grip of it and shake things up, this is not good enough.

claig · 23/06/2012 11:08

Can anyone read the Guadian's 'O' level English paper, or has it been made extraordinarily difficult to ascertain the standard for some reason?

NiceHamione · 23/06/2012 11:09

Bit some people's children couldn't Lequeen.

NiceHamione · 23/06/2012 11:11

I suppose it depends on what you call a pass. The average eight year old could not get a grade C at GCSE and it is insulting to most GCSE students to say otherwise .

claig · 23/06/2012 11:12

You can't have an examination system where you throw sardines so that they can be caught by seals. You can't ask easy questions just in case children won't get any right. There has to be a level and if it can't be met, then the league tables have to mark a fail. We're not playing monopoly and there is no get out of jail.

LeQueen · 23/06/2012 11:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kernowbysvycken · 23/06/2012 11:15

Claig, it's all available for public consumption on AQA's website.

English language paper

English Lit paper 1

English Lit paper 2

Dilys, The Guardian's example of the O Level paper very clearly includes excerpts on which you answer questions. Was there really that much difference between the exams that the boards offered? (genuine question, I am in my 30s and therefore didn't do O Levels). You would never get away with that these days as the GCSEs are all very very similar, regardless of exam board.

I accept that the maths questions look much easier on the GCSE but would point out that the 'write 1345 as words' question is on the foundation paper on which you can't get higher than a C grade (remember a C is 'average'). The higher paper looks much more like the O Level doesn't it? (again, genuine question from someone who had to work hard to get a C on the foundation paper at GCSE!)

kernowbysvycken · 23/06/2012 11:15

LeQueen scroll down for the higher paper Wink I think it looks much harder?

NiceHamione · 23/06/2012 11:18

Again I don't teach maths but a child who only answers that kind of question is going to get a G.

LeQueen · 23/06/2012 11:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kernowbysvycken · 23/06/2012 11:18

I'm guessing that CSE was probably comparable to foundation/ lower tiers while higher tier is more like O Level? Interesting that The Guardian haven't included CSE papers?

NiceHamione · 23/06/2012 11:19

How charming to have teachers who piss themselves laughing at the standards that some students achieve, many of whom will have severe SENs.