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The return of the O Level.

827 replies

hermionestranger · 20/06/2012 23:46

Leaked reports suggest that the government is to scrap the GCSE from 2015, 2013 option takers will be the last year to take them.

I'm sorry it's the mail bug they were first on my twitter feed. I 'm on my phone so can't link properly.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2162369/Return-O-Level-Gove-shake-biggest-revolution-education-30-years.html

OP posts:
justlemonade · 22/06/2012 16:59

There's a lot of bollocks on this thread about GCSEs being easier than O Levels. As a teacher I know that the pupils who attain As and A*s have worked bloody hard for them. There's an older generation of people who seem to think their exam results are in some way superior. Madness.

However, the current system IS tiered already. Teachers are under so much pressure to get pupils attaining C grades in GCSEs that these pupils receive most of their time and energy. I have spent many an hour beating myself up about the pupils who are only ever going to achieve an E or F. They're completely 'lost' in the work and the teachers are forced to spend their energies on the C/D border line pupils because of the targets they and their school are required to meet.

In some ways Gove is right. I believe it's be better for the pupils at the bottom end of the GCSE scale to spend their time studying something more useful. I'm a firm believer that a good experience at school (and then a love of learning for life) comes from a feeling of success. If you're constantly at the bottom of the pile for English or Maths it doesn't do much for your self esteem. If I were constantly getting Es and Fs at school I reckon I'd end up being one of the millions of disillusioned, unemployed youths in the country at the moment! Surely time could be better spent at school rather than spending 5 hours a day studying subjects where they're only going to achieve the lowest grades?

My biggest worry about Gove's plans is what happens to the pupils 'in the middle'? If there has to be a judgement made early on as to which route pupils take it could be very dangerous. Imagine being one of the pupils who has 'just missed' the academic route (or worse still their ability being misjudged and then put in the wrong 'half'. This is probably the biggest challenge IMO.

LeQueen · 22/06/2012 17:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

justlemonade · 22/06/2012 17:23

LeQueen Preparation is the difference. In a CA you can have discussed roughly what is going to be asked of you in class time previously. In exams, pupil and teacher are going in blind as to what will be asked. HTH

TheFallenMadonna · 22/06/2012 17:23

They are marked by teachers and externally moderated. As opposed to externally marked. Replacing them would cost more I suppose! And they may have a low control components - for us the practical itself.

TheFallenMadonna · 22/06/2012 17:25

I like them, because I loathed coursework and would hate to see all practicals removed from Science assessment.

PrincessTamTam · 22/06/2012 17:28

I agree about the league tables, students and teachers would be much better off without them.

I also agree we should stop denigrating the GCSEs my DS2 is currently working his bollox off and deserves to be respected for whatever he gets.

They also seem to take far more exams than we did - he will end up with 12 GCSEs (if he passes Grin). I took 9 O Levels, and the average at my school was probably 7 or 8 subjects. It was all over in a couple of weeks, theirs drag on for a month or more. I did a fair amount of work and did very well, O levels were definitely no harder. I also agree that the depth of the work in history for example is much better at GCSE than it was at O Level.

MarysBeard · 22/06/2012 17:30

There's an older generation of people who seem to think their exam results are in some way superior. Madness.

Insecurity because younger people are actually better educated than they were.

Janacek · 22/06/2012 17:38

I am really pleased. I did O levels and was an acedemic child who went to Uni, I have 2 boys 1 academic, 1 less so. There needs are very different. I would want my more able boy to do O levels and the other to do a more suitable qualification. When are we going to stop dubbing down and pretending children are all the same. They aren't.

tigercametotea · 22/06/2012 17:38

Well I am just saying that when I did AS Maths in the local college 3 years ago, it was piss easy because I studied all of that for O level Maths 18 years ago. I am taking a Chemistry AS this year and once again, find that most of the AS Chem syllabus had already been covered in my O level Chemistry syllabus 18 years ago. I'm not belittling anyone. In fact my DD struggles somewhat academically and I know she would have to work hard to get an A if she was going to do GCSEs (or O levels for that matter). I just don't assume that just because O levels were easy for me then it must be easy for my kids.

MarysBeard · 22/06/2012 17:41

I don't see why kids have to have any exams at 16, given that the school leaving age is soon to be raised to 18.

I think they should be educated in the same school until Y9. Then they have an aptitude test to find out what they are into rather than based on ability, they can still choose options, the test is just a guide, then they could go down an academic or vocational subject route or do a bit of a mixture. Vocational subjects being just as rigorous as academic ones. No compulsory subjects. Choose between 6 and 10. You do coursework from Y10 which counts towards the final results, say 50% overall. Do it as open book exam style if there are worries about cheating. Then exams in Y13 on everything like the IB.

PrincessTamTam · 22/06/2012 17:43

Wow Tiger - I am amazed you can remember it all! I got a B at maths O level and can't do my 12 yr old's work!

I am probably MUCH older than you though Blush

tigercametotea · 22/06/2012 17:44

And I do prefer the IB system for the reasons Marysbeard just mentioned.

tigercametotea · 22/06/2012 17:53

PrincessTamTam, it felt like riding a bike. All started to come back to me gradually as I sat in AS classes. The stuff you've learnt is stored somewhere in there I'm sure, just needs a bit of work digging them up. I'm 33 this year... took my O levels at 16 as I was studying in Singapore. Funny enough, the O levels were never abolished in Singapore, so they are still doing it now. I think Singaporean students have an unfair advantage if they have the money to come to the UK to do their A levels instead of doing the old style GCE A levels they still do there.

JugglingWithTangentialOranges · 22/06/2012 17:55

On a slight tangent (as is my habit) did anyone see the discussion of this on Newsnight last night.

What got to me on that was someone (could his name have been Lord Adonis ?!)
saying that "Every child should be able to pass GCSE Maths and English at A-C" And someone else agreed, yes, 100% of our children should be getting those.

Well, what about children with special needs, some of whom may not be able to.
Please stop saying 100%and "all chidren" people - I've seen it before elsewhere.

100% of children are not NT for one thing. There is diversity, and that needs to be accommodated in some way. Stop forgetting that everyone isn't the same. Arrgghhhh !! Angry

tigercametotea · 22/06/2012 17:57

I do get what someone mentioned about Maths teaching at primary level here being different from the way Maths was taught decades ago. There is a free Math enrichment curriculum online called MEP Maths (Google it) which you can use to refresh yourself on newer ways of Math teaching as well as for your DCs too if they are up for it.

mathanxiety · 22/06/2012 18:36

I think what is normally meant by such a comment is 'everyone who is NT'.

TalkinPeace2 · 22/06/2012 19:52

Jugglilng
Adonis is indeed an arse. NO concept of what sort of kids go to non selective schools. NO concept of parents earning under £100k

Among Gove's set of standard spellings was "champagne" and "au-pair" FFS

hackmum · 22/06/2012 20:40

A statement such as "Every child should be able to pass GCSE Maths and English at A-C" is a bit pathetic, really. It's like saying, "Everybody should pay their taxes" or "Everybody should be nice to each other." What does it mean - that all children are capable of passing GCSE Maths and English if only they are taught properly? Or "In an ideal world, children would be cleverer than they actually are?"

I suspect Adonis doesn't know any actual real-life children from actual real-life families. Really, the best thing for these people would be to force them to teach in a London comprehensive for a year and then make their pronouncements on education.

JugglingWithTangentialOranges · 22/06/2012 21:00

Hi TalkinPeace -

And where did he get a name like "Lord Adonis" ?

Is he for real ?! Grin

< waves to hackmum - we meet again ! >

PrincessTamTam · 22/06/2012 21:18

Grin at 'champagne' and 'au-pair' Is that for real?
It is scary - these people run the country.

TalkinPeace2 · 22/06/2012 21:29

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Adonis
cannot right now find a link to Gove's set of words - funny that

WoodRose · 22/06/2012 21:54

Hmm. I think Lord Adonis knows plenty about "ordinary" people who earn less than £100k. Actually Lord Adonis was in care until age 11 and then sent to boarding school by his local authority. Despite his difficult background he was able to do well enough at school to attend Oxford. Oh, "Adonis" is his last name. Can't do much about that, can he?

TalkinPeace2 · 22/06/2012 21:56

he may have been there but BOY OH BOY has he blotted it out
and yes, I do not judge the name, just the "title" and the attitude

EdithWeston · 22/06/2012 21:58

He got the title as one of Tony's Cronies, didn't he?

JugglingWithTangentialOranges · 22/06/2012 22:02

I was just annoyed with him for his "all children should pass" remark.

IMHO He should know better, especially if he's had a more challenging background. I can be quite unforgiving of such things, I realise.