MMR back in the headlines - Italian Court rules it WAS cause of boys Autism

[doradoo]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2160054/MMR-A-mothers-victory-The-vast-majority-doctors-say-link-triple-jab-autism-Italian-court-case-reignite-controversial-debate.html - sorry for DM link....

This is surely going to reignite the debate around the jab - fwiw my DCs were vaccinated with VMMR (with chicken pox too as we're not in the UK) - but I was concerned about the jab having heard / seen the reporting surrounding it.

So is the court right - and what does it mean for the UK and parents here who believe that MMR damaged their children?

Oddly enough, it is the Daily Mail who picks this ruling up. None of the Italian papers, do you know why?

This was the ruling of a very minor provincial court in Italy. The Italian government will certainly appeal and almost certainly win. This is why everybody else is ignoring this decision.

It is a storm in a teacup and only picked up here in the UK to stir up the debate again, scare people again in not vaccinating their kids at a time of several serious measles outbreaks.

Really clever!

Why would the Daily Mail do that?

I expect the Daily Mail has picked it up because it knows how much publicity the MMR debate has had here in the UK, and they think that more people will buy the Daily Mail or look at their website if they cover it.

And re. inserts, when DS got his first vaccinations, the GP gave me the inserts to read and take home with me. I assumed that was normal.

I thought the UK doctor who started this scare with his dodgy research got struck off at his GMC hearing for running papers with bad science.

So... are the Italian doctors better scientists/ statisticians? (Genuine question btw, not rhetorical).

It says a number of doctors reviewed the evidence.

Daily MAil has always reported MMR stuff. More to keep it in circulation, rather than spin/scare, imo.

The lack of reporting elsewhere does not surprise me - lots of landmark rulings don't get reported in the UK - the Hannah Poling verdict was buried (and that was major news); barely a mention of Bailey Banks either (another huge case). dh had some correspondence with the BBC over both those cases, and the answer each time was 'not in the public interest to report' - this was on days when eg the news consisted of waterskiing budgies and simialr (after the major headlines) so not as though not enough space etc, and these were huge stories, with big implications, but not a peep.

The Daily Fail article is just to stir up a sh*t storm and increase their sales and web site clicks. Totally irresponsible, IMO

Well, the DM may well be interested in causing a shitstorm. Two of its columnists, Melanie Phillips and Peter Hitchens, have in the past been critical of the MMR vaccine.

But I still think it's a story worth reporting. One of the things we were told repeatedly when the MMR scare was at its height was that this was a purely local concern; only the British were worried about it, nobody else. The story at least gives the lie to that.

The only way to know for sure if the MMR vaccine has anything to do with autism is to look at how many people were autistic before the vaccines started being given and how many have it now, while eliminating any other factors. But it's impossible to do this, since it is such a complex diagnosis, and there may well be other factors that have yet to be identified.

The various govts and medical profession have not acted well over this, imo. All we need is balanced information about the vaccine so that we can make up our own minds. Herd immunity is important, but the govt/medics shouldn't treat us like a herd of animals, and should protect individual children who might be at risk from the vaccine.

I really don't get the attidude that because no other news papers picked it up, it must be the DM fearmongering.

Acutally this story has been all over the net and on alternative media.

You might not actually like the truth because it makes you feel uncomfortable, and it challenges your long held beliefs, but for those who have 'Collateral damaged children' and that is a disgusting phrase, its something they have been waiting for for a long time.

The lid is off this one, and its not going away.

"on alternative media"

You mean like the JABS forum and other tinfoil hat congregations?

LOL. Its not going away.

Dd3 had single vaccines, they cost a fortune and she hasnt had the mumps one.

My GP was not allowed to get single vaccines for her even though he was happy with my reasons for wanting her to have them.

We already saw signs of autism in her and I was worried that she MMR would cause more problems.

She had bad reactions to all the combined vaccinations but no probs with the single measles and rubella.

I dont think this will ever go away and I think parents should be able to choose without spending £300+ on singles.

"The only way to know for sure if the MMR vaccine has anything to do with autism is to look at how many people were autistic before the vaccines started"

Not really.

Autism has significantly increased over the past couple of decades - this is what any such study will find. However, correlation doesn't mean causation, so you can't say the increase is due to MMR. There are other factors at play - like better diagnosis, widening of definition re "the spectrum" to include Asperger's Syndrome which in my school days was just called "being a nerd", etc.

The number of children said to be affected by MMR/autism is quite small, so unlikely to make a statistically significant difference in total autism figures, anyway.

The only way to be really sure whether autism is caused by MMR would be to do a massive trial, with thousands and thousands of children.

Put the kids into one of 2 random groups. Give one group MMR, give the other group single measles / mumps / rubella vaccines, and make sure neither the children's parents or the nurse administering the vaccines knows which group is getting MMR and which is getting single vaccine. Administor placebo shots as necessary so each group gets the same overall number of jabs.

Then, a few years down the line, see whether there's any difference in autism diagnosis between the two groups.

It's highly unlikely anyone's going to do a trial like that though.

There has been a recent paper looking at rates of autism in children given mmr and single measles in poland. The rate of autism in the children given the single measles was twice the rate as those given mmr and the unvaccinated children had even higher rates of autism.polish study
Because they stopped mmr in japan a while back they have looked at autism rates in Japan before and after mmr was stopped and again autism continued to rise after the mmr was stopped.

a round up of studies concerning mmr and autism

a more up to date japanese study

oops wrong link frombonne study

What age do they want to give the MMR these days?

I was interested to see that only the DM picked this up of the newspapers. And the story didn't stay online long. Is that because they are expected to
Lose on appeal and does anyone know when the appeal is?
I expected it to be far more widely reported and thought it a little odd frankly

www.badscience.net/2008/08/the-medias-mmr-hoax/

www.badscience.net/2008/08/the-medias-mmr-hoax/

Sorry can't do links

Doing it for you nellyjelly...

www.badscience.net/2008/08/the-medias-mmr-hoax/

It's about 13 months, Jux - just when more visible autistic traits start manifesting themselves in some children.

Thanks. bloody ipad!