Midwives say women should pay for epidurals

[TheDullWitch]

At least £500 a baby it says here

Tribpot, your dh's pain is not the same thing as pain in childbirth though. Pain makes your body put itself in certain positions in labour that will help the baby come out. In that way it's a positive pain. Not like being ill.

dinny, I don't think we know enough to say whether my dh's pain is like the pain of being in childbirth. It is 'natural' in the sense that Mother Nature has decided to visit it upon him, therefore could there not be some therapeutic benefit to suffering it?

What I'm saying is: people have pain. Pain relief is available. Pain relief always comes at a cost. The question therefore is whether you are personally prepared to take that cost, and being expected to cough up 500 large ones for it is as insulting to me in labour as it is to my dh not in labour.

Honestly, what a load of nonsense. Hasn't the RCM got anything better to do with its time?

Hey, Hester, remember the lovely lady who told us nice brisk walks would shed all the baby weight (as if)?

I'm a bit late to this. I don't think epidurals should be given routinely. Not at that price. I agree that once intervention has begun (eg when one has been induced) it;s a different matter. For a normal, natural labour though I think epidurals are overused.

I have a bit of an axe to grind. In order to refuse scans and other interventions which I perceived to be unecessary and unwanted for my pregnancies, I had to fork out for indie midwives. (The NHS ones clearly thought me mad and a danger to my unborn child for, and I quote, "refusing a scan and insisting on a home confinement".
In order to get the sort of birth I wanted (no scans, no hospital, no pain concealling) I had to fork out over two grand every time. When I see the cost of all this stuff I realised how much I saved the NHS four times over and feel quite cheated.

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Exactly, its a different matter, like you say, when intervention has occured already but like you said, I dont think it should be given routinely

spidermama, I'm not sure there's any evidence that the cost of the proposed 'fine' is equivalent to the cost of the drug itself. It's more intended as a tax on 'unnecessary' pain relief, much like fuel tax is meant to curb our spending ...

I can think of a lot of other ways to save money for the NHS than this "attack" (the way I see it this is an attack) on pregnant women and their choices in labour. It really annoys me when women who have obviously had a good birth experience without an epidural decided what other women need in order to go through their labour. Really really piss me off actually!

I know they're optional pruni. The midwives could barely conceal their contempt for my choices though and - call me old fashioned - but women who have no respect for my views are not the sort of people I want to be hanging out with in labour.

Why did you not want a scan spidermama?

Fairy I've had four births and two of them were pretty awful. I happen to believe they'd have been even worse had I been given epidurals or any other sort of intervention.

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I don't understand. Noone is forcing you to have an epidural? If you don't want, you don't want. Why the need to campaign for other women not to have them too? I still think "pretty awful" is relative.

Fairy I just didn't see the pregnancy as a medical event. I wanted to enjoy the phychic link with my baby without other people poking about and peering in bouncing hi pitched soundwaves off my little one and looking for problems. I would always continue with a pregnancy even if they had discovered problems so I didn't want them looking. I'm vehemently against the way that birth has been medicalised and taken away from women (bnirht givers) by, largely, men (medics). This is simplistic, but that's the gist of it.

I think we've lost too much of our womanlyness at the hands of male scientists. Women no longer believe in themselves and their innate creative powers. I felt such incredible empowerment during pregnancy and childbirth. There's nothing like it. I don't want some strange bloke in a white coat claiming credit for extracting my baby.

Oooooh! I could go on. This gets me riled. I feel women need to reclaim this ground.

At the end of the day like none of us can choose what laws are passed through parliment for example, none us squabbling on will make any difference to what happens with this, if they are going to make it policy they will, wether people like it/agree with it or not

MI-have a read throughthis
again highlights the many problems epidurals cuase, I feel what they cause by far outweighs the benefits personally(coming from someone who HAS had one)

SM-you are very right. birth has become a very medic event (not the way nature intended) and MI it has nothing to do with queen victoria or whatever you said before, like SM said, its due largely to MEN

By "pretty awful is relative" I assume you've decided my two awful births couldn't have been that awful because I didn't have pain relief?

I think this is a very good idea, that needs a bit more thought to go into it first. e.g financial means testing needs to happen and those on a low income, should not be required to pay.
In addition, situations where a midwife or an Ob considers it essential pain relief for a safe delivery then no charge to be made.

But i agree that it has become too much a part of people's birth plans, rather than a form of pain relief when absolutely necessary.

I would love to see the NHS make big savings from such a system in place, so long as those savings get spent on sensible things, such as the cancer drug high on the agenda at the moment for women with breast cancer and other such life saving treatments.

I also don't believe the NHS ought to be giving out free scans routinely when people are waiting for hip replacements.

But last time I mentioned this I was flamed into oblivion.

I'd like to know where all these epis are being so easily obtained. I had to wait hours b/c it was the middle of the night and no anaethetist was available.

But spidermama, I am all for you reclaiming this ground for yourself. Personally I happen to thank my lucky star I am lucky enough to give birth today and not 100 years ago. Let's face it, it was a much riskier business in the old days both for mum and baby. I don't need a psychic link with my baby. I want to see it on the scan and would love to be married to tom cruise and have my own scan machine to attach myself too! See, we are different. I am all for you doing what you want to do, but please don't try to reclaim this ground on my behalf. I am all for information and education and then we have to make our own choices. Sometimes we make these choices before birth, then birth takes us by suprise and we feel like failures. Isn't that true you think?

I'm not reclaiming anything for you fairy dear. Most women don't know it's possibl, let alone desirable, to have natural births with no drugs.
You're welcome to your equipment. I have no truck with it.

Saved by the crying baby.
Nite.

Don't you think thought that many of the 'surprises' that make one feel a 'failure' are largely due to intervention?

Someone being induced - because they want to be, because the hospital is going to be busy next week so would rather get it done now, because the hospital doesn't want to get sued if they don't induce and something goes wrong.

Someone being given an epidural - then can't feel to push baby out so gets rushed into theatre.

Someone having their waters broken - then nothing else, infection sets in - rushed into theatre.