Midwives say women should pay for epidurals

[TheDullWitch]

At least £500 a baby it says here

Mine didn't work -would they refund?

I'm loving some of the BBC comments. A timely reminder that there are many nutcases out there (And only some of them are midwives ) In fact, as I'm off to the pain clinic on Monday I might ask our Registrar what his take is on this - one anaesthetist has posted saying "the epidurals are our clinical responsibility so what the hell do the midwives think they're doing saying they think it should be chargeable".

I spent most of my labour in a car being sent back and forth cos there were no beds. On our final journey to hosp I got stuck in a traffic jam with a distinct urge to push and a desire to die. I got to hosp in a lot of pain and was swearing in the lift on the way up to the labour ward. Crawled into the ward and managed to say I'm in labour before crawling to their waiting room. I insisted that I needed to pass a stool (I actually used these words) and two midwives had to pull me off the toilet cos it was no stool!!

Have you thought about pain relief they said 'give me everything you got' I said and then I went 'into myself'. The midwives kept using the words 'your baby' and it really helped me focus on what I was doing and when she was crowning they said 'it's ok your baby's head is coming out'. There constant referal to the baby really helped me. It seems so simple but my previous labour never seemed to be about a baby.

In the end I had no pain relief but when the doc came to stitch me up I wanted her
to numb me and I could see she was surprised after all if I could go through labour drug free why not get a couple of stitches drug free. She said as much. The midwives had made such a diference with their carefully chosen words, they made me able to see the labour pain differently. I don't know if I would do it drug free again and I certainly would counsel my daughter to do whatever made her feel the safest.

WTF?! Stitch you up w/NO pain relief? WTF is THAT? They wouldn't dream of doing that to ANY other patient, but it's somehow okay to do it to someone's vulva when they've just had a baby's head pass thru it and it's sore as hell? I so don't get that?

dropsophilia the labouring in the car because they wouldn't admit you due to lack of beds

I know I think thats why I got 2 midwives. Baby was in SBU for 7 days which may well have something to do with birth not being monitored. I think I was only in the labour ward for about 15 mins before actual birth.

I think doc thought as it was only a couple of stitches.... Doc didn't look old enough to have kids whereas midwives had kids. Do you think this makes a difference.

It shouldn't make a difference, dros. I mean, to me, that's just common f*()king sense, professionalism and courtesy to at least OFFER pain relief for stitches, be they someone's vagina or their arm. That seems a no brainer.

We're all different. I'm bad at accepting help in life, and in labour it's no exception.

It never occured to me to conceal the pain because I really needed to be in complete control and to feel every sensation in order to do it by myself. I would have been scared if the birth experience had been taken away from me.

I had four births at home with no drugs ... but before you think me lucky or smug, allow me to expand ...

My first was straight forward. 7 hours, steady progress, pushing for an hour and a quarter, crowning and out. I was up and about very quickly. Heaven. Great memories.

The scond was horrible. 3 days and nights in labour. Excrutiating. 9.5 pounds of ds with a massive head (still has - I wince and my eye starts to twitch when I look at it sometimes ). His head presented at an angle, his hand was up there with it and I had anterior lip. It didn't occur to me to consider pain relief. Quite the contrary in fact. I needed my wits about me and I often reflect on how badly that could have gone in hospital. (Probably C section).

ds3 was an absolute breeze, bless him. 3 hours of proper contractions, he slid down, small head popped out and he made a cute little noise to announce his presence even before the rest of him was out. MW only just made it in time and tbh I didn't actually want or need her. DH could have caught this one if he'd been brave enough. Heaven. Best birth ever.

Number four was, therefore, a shocker, but mercifully short. He was 10lbs with a big head and he came down and out OP (back to back), after first getting himself stuck around the bend. About five hours from first OMG-here-we-go contracton til he came out. His birth caused permenant damage and hurt very, very, very, very, very much. I shook so hard for hours afterwards that I couldn't hold him for a bit.

I tore with all four.

I do feel that my two tough births would probably have been tougher, for me, in hospital with intervention. Despite them being really tough and quite traumatic I wouldn't do anything differently. I love that I felt each of my babies inching down. I moved around to let them out as best I could. I did it on my own and I felt hugely confident and empowered by this.

Spidermama.... (incidentally, you don't come across as smug at all )
Interesting that you talk about wanting to feel 'in control'. For me the advantage of the epidural was that taking the pain away allowed me to feel calm and focus on what was going on - I felt much more 'in control' once I had had the epidural, even though there was the 'cascade of intervention' (catheter etc). That was one reason why I went for the epi (once things had gone beyond the stage where tens was helping, and gas and air turned out to have no effect on me at all) rather than pethidine etc - it doesn't make you any less alert or conscious (despite what a lot of people have said on the BBC thread and a few on this one).
Anyway I'm sure we're agreed that every woman should have the birth she wants - the fact that some women have to fight for home births is just as bad as the fact that others can't be sure they'll get the epidural just because there aren't enough anaesthetists. These things are two sides of the same coin IMO.

Haven't had time to read all the posts but have skimmed so apologies if I am repeating...

I do know that professional bodies release things with contraversial headings to stir up debate within the wider medical profession - these things aren't nec aimed at the general public but to gee up other areas that they think need to greater appreciate what's going on.

An increase from 8% to 12% in needing venteuse, forcesps etc isn't a 4% increase...it's a 50% increase and that's a lot!

And whilst I have no desire to enter a debate on what should or should not be paid for within the NHS and make subjective comments about other people's experiences (which may leave lasting mental or physical trauma) there are many life threatening and long term conditions out there for which people have to pay for their medication once they are 16. My dns2&3 both have Cystic Fibrosis from which they will die. Their medical care is free for which we are endlessly grateful but they will have to pay for their medication - the medication which keeps them ALIVE from when they are 16...keep things in perspective please.

i amthe biggest wimp going and i didnt have one as i was too scared to have one. neither did i want one if i could help it.
i had a good midwife- who i had never met in my life, my husband and mum present.
i agree with those that have said it is a different pain. i would say a positive pain. yes it bloody caned but i knew what i was getting at the end and that every pain brought it closer.
i also got a great sense of pride from doing it alone.
im not knocking anyone who has one, everyone feels pain differently and has different thresholds.
i have to be put under to have work done on my teeth but gave birth naturally!!

OK, Hannahsaunt, but I don't think two wrongs make a right. Money pours out of the Civil Service, parliament, the NHS and evey other government run organisation like water from a colander, so the idea that women in labour should have to fork out makes me furious. What's emerging from this debate (and I mean in the wider sense, not just on MN) is an unpleasant underlying attitude that women shouldn't really need all this pain relief. They should just grit their teeth and get on with it. After all, millions of women give birth etc etc.

Interesting post Spidermama and I think you've put your finger on one of the key things, the word being control. You and your body were able to cope with horrific pain because you were in control.

The difference in hospital, is that women are not in control. They enter someone else's territory where they are not so much guests, as supplicants. And every ounce of control is taken away from them. As you say yourself, if you'd been in hospital for your second birth, you may well have ended up with a caesarean, because the way women are treated on a labour ward by midwives who function in a hospital setting, is very, very different to the way they are treated in their own bedroom, by midwives who are willing and confident to support a woman in labour in her own home. (And that's not to say that hospital midwives = bad/ community midwives = good btw, just to wearily caveat.)

Good for you, Spidermama. You should feel proud of your four drug-free deliveries.

I am angry about this report though (I said I was staying out of this!) because whatever the ethics/medical merits of epidurals are, it shouldn't have anything to do with money.

My first labour was particularly excruciating because it followed six months in a wheelchair with cripplingly severe SPD and was an induction, which makes it more painful. Due to other conditions/drips/monitors etc, I was made to labour for 24 hours lying propped up on my back with all the pressure on my pelvis, which is a disaster with SPD even without the induction. They would not let me get up and take the pressure off my pelvis even for a couple of minutes. They laughed and expressed disgust at me for wetting myself. They sneered at me and called me names for not coping better with the pain and for crying. The pain was indescribable. I still shake and my eyes fill up at the memory of it. My blood pressure went up to 220/120. I had a third degree tear, multiple lacerations, a retained placenta which had to be removed in theatre, and a major PPH. I remember at the end of it all, when my baby had been rushed to SCBU after not breathing for five minutes, when the midwives disappeared and left dh and I alone for 20 minutes, sitting on a metal bedpan in agony waiting for the placenta to come out, knowing that if it didn't I would have to submit to more butchery, spurting blood everywhere, screaming like an animal, wanting my baby desperately and unable to tolerate any more pain. The midwife yanked the cord to try and force the placenta out and it snapped, spraying blood into my and dh's faces.

I won't go on, because I am hijacking this thread now But to make women pay for pain relief is pure evil. I would like to get my hands on the bastards that conceived this idea.

Satine - I am with you.

QUOTE > "What's emerging from this debate (and I mean in the wider sense, not just on MN) is an unpleasant underlying attitude that women shouldn't really need all this pain relief."

I think regardless of personal experiences and personal desries i.e. "wouldn't it be nice for everyone to have a birth experience like mine", as women, we ought to be joining in solidarity to look at the bigger picture.

I have had 2 babies 1 with and 1 without. My Ds wouldn't have been born had I had his labour the first time! It was so awful I went into shock afterwards!. I had asked for an epidural but the maternity ward and children's ward shared the anethetist and they were doing an op in the the children's ward so it wasn't possible.

I agree completely if you had to pay the rich wold receive and the rest would suffer.

I also think there is definately an issue that if was something that wasn't women's problems this debate wouldn't be.

Oh Greensleeves.

women shouldn't have to pay, HOWEVER if it meant that I would be guaranteed an epidural + constant care of a midwife, I'd be prepared to pay.

I had one for DD (arrived at hospital 5cm dilated) & had a trauma-free birth & was had someone with me all the time.

If you think how much people pay for say, their hair appointments, going out for meals/drinking/buying their sandwiches out etc, over the course of a year, I don't think £500 + a midwife for 10hrs+ personal care is that unreasonable

Greensleeves how awful!!! Did you ever complain?

No, I didn't have the guts to make a formal complaint. What I posted last night wasn't even one tenth of it.

This wasn't the right place to post my horrible birth experience really, I've already posted the whole story on its own thread and received lots of lovely kind advice and support about it. I just got carried away... too much wine.

What I really meant to emphasise was that linking pain relief to ability to pay is plain wicked, especially when there are health "professionals" working in maternity departments who actively enjoy abusing women in pain and already do everything they can to withhold pain relief. I know it sounds hysterical, but I've seen it first hand and I'm not the only one. This policy is dangerous, immoral and plain ludicrous.

'I don't think £500 + a midwife for 10hrs+ personal care is that unreasonable '

It is when you're a working poor and you've already put money into the system through your taxes, anyhow.

£500 is a fortune to some people - like me. That's a month's rent.

Why should I have to pay for pain relief when someone who shows up at A&E through the 'lifestyle choice' of drinking or drugging too much comes in all busted up from getting into a fight gets treated for nowt?

The scary thing is we'd probably pay gladly - you're in such a vulnerable position when pregnant/in labour. I had an epidural after being induced because I honestly thought the pain would kill me - I was hysterical because I couldn't believe I was still alive and in so much pain... Sounds really silly now but it was the most terrifying experience of my life. And I wasn't even dilating, so not in 'proper' labour. The midwives refused to give me anything other than gas and air, which didn't touch it, and it was only when the consultant was doing his ward round (after about 2 hours I think) that he saw the state I was in and ordered that I have one.

I'd always planned on having an epidural and especially now if I was ever going to go through it again (which I'm NOT!) I'd definitely pay - and that's from a position of being broke...

same old story - look after yourself, take responsibility for your health, plan in advance and you are crucified by health professionals. Abuse yourself, and the NHS throws money at you like it was going out of fashion.