Controlled Crying - stress levels stay high even when babies have learned to settle themselves.

[Codandchops]

OMG!!!

Even worse is that I could not bear to leave my DS as a baby so used to sit in the room and re-settle him every 5 mins. How shit is that? He could see me for 5 mins at a time not comforting him (even though after every 5 mins I did comfort him).

Have always felt an irrational guilt about DS's autism and wonder if I made things worse .

Need to read the research and look at numbers involved.

Ccing, not caving!

I have always missed out what was 'in vogue'. My mother failed to find out either. One thing is for sure- your baby doesn't read the same books!

I have film footage of my mum picking up my brother, who was crying his head off, from his reclining bouncer, patting him and then putting him straight into the pram and pushing him off somewhere then coming back. Didn't notice any particular cuddling or soothing apart from the patting (she wasn't a big one for cuddles, my mum). No idea whether this was just her or "normal for the time" (early 70s) - but I get the impression it was the latter from chatting to other friends' mums.

You only have to read MN to know that nothing is 'normal' for the time.

No but there is a tendency to have different "norms" or cultures in baby care. At one point ff was considered far more superior by lots of people, now it is the opposite, yes it is accepted that everybody does different things and that's fine but in general bfing is recommended. My gm delivered one baby under general anaesthetic as at the time that was considered the best thing. And whilst ideally most variations of parenting are accepted on mn (not so sure about that one!) I do think there are still trends that are considered the preferable way these days e.g. Blw, bfing, natural vaginal births, attachment parenting, feeding on demand etc etc and you only have to come on to mumsnet to see that! The op came on for reassurance as she felt guilty and has been told by some that she is wrong, I personally think she did what was right at the time and shouldn't feel guilty.

blackswan your post is worrying because it seems to suggest that CC is done so that parents can just get on with other stuff instead of dealing with the DC. Its NOT relaxing to hear them cry. That's not why people do it and if you'd read even a few of the posts on here you'd realise that.

My coping strategy for when my babies just cried and cried was to pick them up and rock them - but in a way where you kind of bounce on your heels and jiggle them, and then to tune out the crying I would sing - everything and anything. Just keep on singing. it had a dual effect - 1 it helped me not to focus on the crying and get stressed by it, and 2 I soothed the baby. No child I have ever had to calm down (mine or otherwise) has resisted sleep for more than 20 mins doing that. Then of course they make a positive association with the singing and you don't need the jogging, or even to hold them - when you're driving and can't pick them up I would just sing their usual songs and it would calm them down. It was an absolute life-saver I can tell you!

the thing is tho that it often isnt just 2-3 days of the cc, for many babies/children it takes longer, only then to have to be re done a few weeks/monhts later when they have been ill or teething or had a developmental spurt which means their sleep patterns change again. i know people who have had to do it many times i dont think it is this simple quick fix that its made out to be, there are lots of babies that it doesnt work for, who simply end up getting so upset they vomit or those that eventually fall asleep but still cry in their sleep, that hiccupy silent sobbing as they were in such a state when they feel to sleep.

and what exotic said, its not a lesson i wanted to 'teach' my children and however much you can say we arent cave men etc anymore in evolutionary terms babies are very much the same as cave babies were, they are born to be totally dependent on their parents and biologically need love and attention to develop well, the brain undergoes a huge amount of development in those first months and excessive crying can cause problems and before people say my baby cried whatever i did,there is still a massive difference between a crying baby who has someone THERE with them trying to meet their needs and is offering them comfort, to one that is left on its own all alone. a baby that is crying but being held or touched is still aware of that adult presence, they will get some reassurance from that touch,the breathing and heartbeat they can hear/feel.

the world we live in has changed, and its great that we have the advnaces we have in technology and living conditions to help make parenting and just life in general a dam site more comfortable but a baby is still born as helpless and defencelss as it always was, it is not suddenly going to be ok sleeping on its own in a cot simply because someone invented them and thought that they should, its the importance of kangaroo care etc has been shown for premature babies, and studies have shown that even full temr babies often breathe and regulate their temperature better when kept close to an adult, the idea that they should be able to sleep all night on their own is a very recent one and based on adult sleeping patterns which babies do not have and they are new even for adults in evolutionary terms. we have changed, babies have not.

Very good post 5madthings.

I think the point you made about still getting comfort from being held even though they may still cry is important. Think of a toddler who falls and grazes his knee. He may keep crying when you hug him because it still hurts but he is being comforted by your presence. He feels a bit better because you're there with him.

I also want to pick up on the OP's point that her son went on to be diagnosed with autism.

Babies with autism often cry more intensely and for longer periods of time than babies who don't have it. It can also be an intensely stressful sort of crying, much higher pitched and the baby may not mould as well to the parent or give reciprocal eye contact or social smiles so are difficult to comfort. Parents of babies with this sort of profile are much more likely to be depressed and/or suffer other negative mental health consequences because of the unusual dynamic that this neurologically based condition has created.

It's just so ridiculous to think that it's seen as a one-size fits all sort of thing. Cavemen schmavemen. We live now, we can only live now. The value-laden judgemental rhetoric on this thread in response to a woman concerned her child may have a lifelong debilitating disability that was NOT caused by controlled fricking crying is just staggering. It's just SO easy to say "oh but it's cruel", "oh I could never have done it because I didn't want to teach my child the lesson I wouldn't always be there for them"... I never did controlled crying but I never had debilitating PND without support or a child with a developmental disability that literally couldn't stop crying from one end of the day to the other and seemed worse when held. Some people really are vulnerable and have a terribly hard time of things and the fact that others, in the same circumstance, weather the storm differently is really neither here nor there. If cc'ing stops ONE family from cracking up, then it has some merit... and I still would like to see one person explain to me why a family on the verge of serious crisis and all that entails developmentally for that baby shouldn't try it because another family didn't experience that level of crisis.

Becksharp - that was our strategy for nearly the first year too! But it rarely took less than 20 minutes. It got to the point where she was too heavy for me to do it so dp had to do it, and only he had the knack of doing it the right way, sometimes he'd do it for hours, he would put her down and she'd start crying again. When we finally resorted to cc she cried for less time than she normally would with us rocking. Now when we put her down she just rolls over and goes to sleep before we have left the room. There is no learned helplessness, as soon as she wakes in the morning (she sleeps through every night) or after her nap she cries and we go and get her. So she has not just given up crying as she believes noone will come. far more often than not her needs are met when she cries. Just for a couple of days we didn't go to her when she cried at night because she needed to sleep, and so did we! Ever since everybody in the house has a full night's sleep.

babies aren't learning that their needs won't be met, they are learning that they are overtired and need to go to sleep. We do this with older children too. They don't want to go to bed so we make them because we as parents know they are tired. Their needs aren't being met either on that basis.

Excellent post InterviewMAD, I am quite irrational at times about things and even though logically I now I did not cause my son's autism, that irrational guilt remains at times. I can recogniose though that it is irrational guilt and that it's nothing I did. DS was difficult to settle as a baby and needed me with him - and at age 9 still does need me with him to settle. It's just a continuation of the same pattern and CC was just another technique which I tried.

I agree with 5madthings.
The baby stops crying because he/she learns that it doesn't do any good. I don't for a minute think that a baby thinks they are overtired- that is what the mother thinks!

Yes Cod, totally.

Exoticfruits, seriously? You can't see any shades of grey? A baby who has had weeks of crying and doesn't settle is never overtired? My 2 year old cries bitterly when told he has to have dinner instead of chocolate sometimes. He doesn't think dinner is better. That doesn't mean he is right.

So many irritating posts on this thread, and so much smugness, as though you wouldn't resort to CC tactics in similar circumstances to some other people.

We did a 'version' of CC I read in 'Baby Secrets' which was named 'spaced soothing'. We would leave them to cry for one minute, then go in and soothe. THe next time, two minutes. And so on. We never got past three minutes. As Funny says, this is NOT training children to know that their needs aren't going to be met. They are tired and cranky and nothing is wrong with them other than needing to GO TO SLEEP. Prior to adopting the above practise, we were rocking/hushing/patting for up to an hour - with twins, bloody hard work - and it was getting worse and worse, harder and harder to get them to drop off... with them getting ever more tired and frustrated as the process continued. And if my children EVER wake at night, I go to them almost immediately, having waited a minute or so to see whether it's just night-time groaning which will cease of its own accord.

And would like to add that every single time a harried mother who had never done any sleep training complained to me that she still had a child who couldn't sleep through, who still age 2.5 needed their hand holding to go to sleep and that sometimes the mother's entire evening and night would regularly be disturbed - I thanked my lucky stars I'd had the balls to be strong enough to listen to one-two-three minutes of crying so that I had reliably well-rested children to wake up to, having myself had a full night's sleep.

yes I agree to an extent Devon housewife. we have become very child centred. as i said earlier my grandmother would put my mum down at night and that was it. the baby cried and so did she but then again she may have remembered it that way and things get blurred over time.

people had so much to do in the day and often the babies would be outside in the pram. I think the attitude was more that as long as the baby was fed and comfortable then they had to get on with a bit more.

I think as well you are more attentive with your first but if you have other children you cannot pick up your baby constantly.

At night i was always up and down with mine and my mum did try and influence me with 'the leaving to cry' attitude but I don't think anyone should get a complex if they do. things change,

I think people can be a bit smug about this.

Lady muck, why is it smug to say you wouldn't do something? Also, many people have pointed out that they have had bad sleepers but choose not do CC - its not simply of case of, 'oh, you didn't have to but if you had a bad sleeper you would.'

I don't think for one moment that the op caused her child's autism by doing controlled crying. But I am not prepared to say that cx is all fine and dandy and " you know your baby best" because that's not what I think. And new parents who are considering their options need to know that there are other options. And people always argue extreme cases. Ir's always "better cc than a family torn apart by exhaustion, post partum psychosis and extreme sleep deprivation" Well possibly yes. But the vast majority of people are not in that state. The majority of people are tired and struggle with the demands of parenthood. Or are conned into thinking that babies '"should" sleep through or sleep alone-and if they don't there is something wrong which needs to be fixed. Rather than accepting that babies cry. It's what they do. And the best way to stop them crying is to give them want they want. Like any other baby animal, what they want is to be with other humans.

Good post seeker.

Of corse the baby is overtired! They don't actually think ' gosh I am overtired - I must go to sleep'!

Course

Good post seeker fwiw I had severe PND with psychosis with ds1 and was in MBU. I still didn't do cc as tbh I think it would have excerbated my already low esteem in parenting capabilities. I also continued bfing despite pressure not to. Again that was something that I know ds1 benefitted from and so easy to comfort him.

Mama i also had psychosis and pnd with ds4 and spent time in a psych unit and we still didnt do cc, dp and i just couldnt do it. so when i couldnt co-sleep as in hospital or because of medication then dp slept with him and we muddled through. it was not a nice experience, but we got through it together. as it happens i did have to stop bfeeding but the fact that we still co-slept and were totally responsive to ds4's needs made me feel better about the not bfeeding ,he was still snuggled and safe and secure and not left to cry :)