Nearly 88000 racism cases in uk schools.... So depressing

[defuse]

Saw this on bbc news today. Feel angry that future generations are getting these views from somewhere, be it media, social circles or at home.

Was hoping that racism would be less of an issue in the future, but feel deflated by the realisation that it is alive and kicking.

What irritates me the most is when people suggest that one should just develop a thick skin!

I would imagine a lot of these incidents will be something made out of nothing.

Whilst it is extremely serious, it works out at 3.5 incidents per school. So, not quite as epidemic as it first appears. And it is good that they are being reported. I reported a comment a couple of years ago. The pupil meant no offence, but I was able to explain that whether she meant it or not did not matter. It was offensive. She learned a huge lesson. That is the positive, it was a chance to educate, and the fact it was reported made her listen, think, and take it seriously.

I also would imagine a lot of incidents will be something made out of nothing, but I also imagine there are an awful lot of incidents which aren't reported.

I agree with Born2.

Of course all incidents of racism should be challenged, but children (especially young children) may say things in anger/spite/teasing that they do not realise or recognise to be racist. I bet if you asked every ginger child or every obese child or every child with some sort of LD which is apparent to the rest of the class, or even just an exceptionally clever/studious child in a class full of average and below average pupils, if they had ever experienced comments of a derogatory/offensive nature pertaining to their hair colour/weight/LD/swottishness they would probably all say yes at some point throughout their school years.

Children can be cruel, or just overly blunt and insensitive, they notice difference, whatever that difference may be, and they sometimes just say what they see. That is not to dismiss or trivialise racism, but the focus should be on teaching children to be accepting of all difference.

Statistics like this are not will record every incidence of 'racism' including things like a 4 year old saying to the only black child she has ever seen that he has 'funny fuzzy hair' or whatever, should the child or its parent choose to bring it to the attention of the school, whereas a child receiving similar yet non-race specific comments about his fatness or red hair or whatever would have not have that insult offically noted or categorised, no matter how hurt by it he was.

Whilst obviously the child that comments on 'fuzzy hair' would absolutely need to be picked up on what she said, and taught that her comment was inappropriate, personally I don't think it's helpful to have incidences like that logged for statistical purposes alongside more blatant, dangerous, learned racism in children that probably comes from their homes and parental attitudes.

sorry for garbled third paragraph

What counts as a 'must be recorded' racist incident may surprise you though.

My son had the 'racist incident' mark against his name for his involvement in some things that were said between a group of him and his friends.

It was completely overblown and not understood by whoever decided it must be reported.

My son is black!

He was around 6-7 at the time

My DD recently suffered some 'racist' remarks at school. To be honest it wasn't that bad and I suffered much worse when I was a child.

I've actually been very surprised at how little problems my kids have had growing up compared to myself. For that I am very grateful for and as I always say.....Britain isn't perfect but one thing we can and should be rightly proud of is how well our multicultural society works when you compare it to other nations.

In my DD's case the kids in question (14 & 15yr olds) should have known better but they didn't make the comments because they are racist themselves but more to just try and illicit a reaction from my DD and went over the line.

Schools are there to teach and whilst it's right they take a tough line on such things, I'm not 100% convinced recording every minor infraction helps anyone. We look at the stats like OP has done and conclude that the UK has a big problem with racism.

Kids make mistakes, as long as they are punished appropriately and learn from them then that's fine in my mind. In my DD's case a temporary exclusion for a first offence seemed appropriate to balance the lesson that racism has no place in the 21st century and giving the child a chance to learn that lesson without ruining their future for a stupid mistake.

Of course children need to be taught that making racist remarks is wrong.

I think it's disgraceful though that what are essentially playground incidents are being officially recorded on police files. In the playground, children are exploring the world, including the world of expression, and testing boundaries. They will sometimes cross boundaries. It's all part of growing up.

In one example I read about a child was reported for racism just for asking one of his black classmates if his skin was that colour because he came from Africa. I don't see anything wrong with that from a child's point of view. Children should always be able to ask questions freely.

I can imagine in a few decades time someone running for Prime Minister and someone pulls from his childhood polic file the fact that he made a disobliging remark to a classmate when he was at primary school.

Children deserve privacy. Keeping police files on their childhood playground activites is inconsistent with this.

Do you really think teachers and school staff spend all their time filling in paperwork and collecting witness statements because one pupil asked another if he came from Africa?

Some of these incidents are where some overzealous admin person has gone too far in their desire to follow policy to the letter. But most are serious racist comments and actions, many of which would get an adult arrested. If you only mix with intelligent, educated people, who are aware of their wider community, then you probably don't meet many racist people. If you work in some very deprived areas with massive unemployment, poor social mobility and a lack of education then you meet quite a bit of racism. Because many people are looking for someone to blame. And the BNP, their friends and family feed them the idea that minorities are to blame.

Vj32

When I lived in an area like you described, my children were subject to many incidents of racism at school.

The vast majority were barely acknowlegded let alone recorded and my con was even told he was to blame!

So sorry but yes I think a lot of it is nonsense and overzealousness

my *son

I would be interested to know how the figures are made up. I think where I live in central London there has been a real change in people's attitudes in the last 30 years or so. My DDs both attend quite diverse schools and they report that while racist bullying is rare and not tolerated, sexist and heterosexist bullying is very common and apparently tolerated. One of my DDs experienced some disparaging comments from a teacher because her Dad is Irish, I didn't lodge it as a racist complaint but I did complain about it.

vj21:

No I don't suppose they do. My speculation (no more than that) is that there is likely to be great inconsistency and patchiness in the reporting. You get some minor incidents that are reported, as you say, because of some over-jealous administrator. I suspect there are some more major ones that don't get reported simply because no adult was there. Mybe there are others that do get reported because a parent is making a fuss and the school feels the need to cover itself.

In general I don't think that playground abuse should be something to be put on police records but should be dealt with locally by the teachers on the ground, exercising common sense and a sense of proportion.

somebloke123, do they go on police records?

My understanding was its collated at local authority level but not refered to the police as standard.

sorry I meant over zealous of course

Amberleaf:

Looking into it it seems you are right and I stand (partially) corrected. However victims of the alleged racist incidents are entitled to require that
the incident be reported to the police, so this does leave open the poossibility of relatevely minor incident being put on police files.

Another problem, it seems to me, is the absurd McPherson report definition of a racist incodent as one which is simply perceived as such by anyone present or any other person. It is possible to misperceive somthing.

Racist comment in DS's class was made by boy of dual heritage at white children using racist language about another cultural background - go figure????

Think there is still a lot of work to be done. I have heard a white British mum say something extraordinarily racist about her own mixed-race children's hair - she loves them but it came out so naturally in the school playground that can't help but think they must be hearing that type of comment all the time at home (hmm). I perceived it as racist, the teachers probably would have done so had they heard the comment but not sure her children did at all!

I am not sure however that having primary school children's names recorded in Stasi-like Council Files for racist comments is the way to go. Do the names get removed if there are no further incidents within a give time-frame or will the black mark against their name go through life with them?

Also know of a couple of incidents at DCs' school where children, for whom English isn't their first language (and have very limited English on arrival at school) have been reported to the Head for making racist remarks in English when it is more than likely that they have heard the remarks in the playground, made by another child, and are repeating them possibly not even really knowing what they are saying

I can believe it, and I dread this with my younger two. I couldn't believe some of the stuff ds1 was telling me he heard at junior school regarding a black friend of his, derogratory terms i had nebpver even heard before. Mine haven't experienced anything yet.

I'm not sure a fuzzy hair comment is racist from a very young child making an observation, though I would have gently corrected. No more than a young boy saying to my dts when they were babies, 'look mum, these babies are chocolate like me!' he was clearly enamoured with them, and I didn't find it offensive at all.

Yes, I agree. At my dd's school a child was making slitty eyed gestures. My dd and a few others knew it was wrong even though nobody had ever said to them 'don't ever do that'.

The problem is that some parents don't feel the inclination to educate their children so that they grow up challenging prejudices against others. The parents think it's irrelevant to their family. I think it's to do with a lack of empathy.

No, the fuzzy hair comment would not be racist, (in the context of how I posted it) that was my whole point! But if an overly sensitive or belligerent parent or teacher decided to pick up on it and make a big fuss it would get recorded and probably reported in the figures that go to the LEA and then end up contributing to statistics like these. That's why I always take statistics with a large does of salt - they are skewed so easily.

The example you have given is interesting because if you asked anyone whether your DS saying 'look, they are chocolate like me' was racist, no-one would say it was.

However if you asked some people whether the phrase 'look mum, they are chocolate' coming from a white child was racist, they would say yes. and therein lies the problem.