Sue Marsh (spartacus report author) has been treated inhumanely.Forced to tweet for help from hospital.

[carernotasaint]

www.latentexistence.me.uk/sue-marsh-given-wrong-drug-and-nurse-refused-to-change-it-agony-instead-of-pain-relief/

Atreegrowsinbrokklyn , thats exactly what i was thinking . If you were given fentanyl by mistake , they wouldnt then be able to give you the pethadine until it was safe to do so . However a full explanation as to the reason should have been given . Was the pethadine prescribed , because nurses cannot hand out controlled drugs and most would be reluctant to take a verbal instruction on a CD especially knowing you had already had an opiate .
The staff on the ward should be filling out an incident form with regards to the fentanyl, as you came back into their care having been given a drug you are known to be allergic to . A dr should have been informed in case of adverse reaction , i know you had an adverse reaction , but i am talking about adverse in the sense of keeling over and dying .
Did they offer you anything, even paracetamol ? I know from my experience it can be incredibly frustrating getting a Dr and one that feels confident to make a decision especially on a weekend . I would of given you whatever was at my disposal and let you know i was doing all i could to get someone to come up with a better solution.
I really hope you make a good recovery inspite of this .

I am sorry to hear that. Good luck.

frumpet - it was none of those things, see my previous comment to Atreegrowsinbrooklyn. I've had crohn's 28 years and know all the internal reasons and politics very well. Of course, it's very difficult to discuss it properly here, because I can't say very much.

Ive spent most of my nusring life badgering people into not being brave and asking for pain relief when they feel pain as opposed to waiting until its unbearable so your story makes me sad . 90% of the staff i work with have an excellent and caring attitude , but thats no good to you if you are being looked after by one of the other 10% is it

I completely understand that Suey , i guess i was trying to think of plausible reasons why the staff would leave you in pain .
I just dont want to believe they wouldn't offer you anything at all , not even bloody paracetamol ? I know it might sound mad offering paracetamol but it works very well with opiates.
Do let us know the outcome of your complaint wont you .
Is your pain sorted now ?

I'm afraid sometimes healthcare workers DO close ranks. Have seen it at first hand - thankfully not when I've been a patient but have seen it when working with doctors and it's not pretty. (It happens with nurses, too, and I'm sure other disciplines.) I'm a health journalist by background, and I've listened to some appalling stories from people who have been very badly treated - stories that were backed up by documentary evidence, other witnesses, and later confirmed by official inquiries. Some of those people were patients, some were doctors, nurses and other NHS staff who had tried to raise concerns properly, by the formal route, and been victimised as a result.

See Mind's Death by Indifference reports if you really want to be horrified. Terrible thing is that there have been two DBI reports now - all the shock and horror and promises of change by the people in charge have resulted in entirely insufficient action.

In fact I'm currently aware of a case of a nurse who dared to raise concerns and has been well-nigh hounded out of the profession as a result. The only reason she's just about clinging on is that she happened to have one senior colleague who thought the backlash against her was outrageous, and happened to meet someone who has long experience of fighting injustice and decided to help. But even now the nurse has been cleared and it's blindingly obvious to the authorities that the whole thing has been a ridiculous charade, the bastards are still trying to make her life so difficult she'll give up.

It's just so wrong that the term "profession" is used in medicine.

Professional is exactly what it's not.

I'm not for a moment suggesting that she hasn't had a bad experience and it wasn't intended to be cruel. However I have no idea of any of the actual facts, and to me the description that was posted was melodramatic.

Maybe so - but only to anyone without an ounce of empathy.

I suggest you reread it, Pipsqueak - would you be happy for someone to say that to someone you love, having been through all that? Because my mother has been through that exact kind of surgery, and I would be horrified if someone said that to her.

If what she is tweeting is the entire story, then there are some very difficult questions to be answered. There may be a different viewpoint from the staff involved, we dont really know.

I'm a bit confused as to where she was tweeting from (they took place over about half an hour). You wouldnt have your phone with you in recovery, but she talks about the recovery nurse - that does seem a bit puzzling.

Hi suey2ey I hope you are feeling better now.

Yes, do hope you are feeling better.

edam wtaf! Just read the death by indifference follow up. I am almost lost for words (ones that aren't four letters anyway).

I have a PhD (in biophysics) and had several occasions during my pregnancy and labour where I felt the need to use my title as Dr. just to get NHS staff to take me seriously in my wishes that they follow the nice guidelines.

It occurred to me at the time that it must be harder to get them to take you seriously if you can't brandish obvious authentication that you are intellectually capable of having a valid opinion on your health and treatment, but I didn't think to extrapolate to those that cannot easily speak up for themselves at all and the terrible time they might have in accessing decent health care.

To me, the main point here is that the medical profession frequently just do not LISTEN to patients. I have experienced it hundreds of times - and I'm not being melodramatic here (!) - I have a chronic illness (20 years) so I have been to hospitals hundreds of times.

They need to learn to get off their high horses and realise that patients, especially those who have lived with their illness for many years, know their illness, know their bodies, know their history and generally know what works and doesn't work for them. They have learned through hard experience and their own research (which is often the only option when the medics don't have the time or the will to do it for you).

IMO it is most often the case that the medics sense of power/control/ego is threatened because you know as much (or more) than they do - and they really don't like that. They need training in how to keep their arrogance in check! They need to stop infantilizing us. They need to be humble enough to admit they don't know everything and they need to be dedicated enough to keep an open mind and keep learning.

I have fond memories of a drip needle wrongly inserted into my hand, it turning black and me crying with pain while a lovely nurse on night duty told me that "God knows what's best and He wants you to hold your arm in the air."

Hoh yes.

And the first thing you learn when you go to hospital is to hide inside the nurses' station so that when God the consultant appears for ward rounds you can jump out (if mobile) and shout until you get what you need.

Next you teach the other patients to shout too, especially the meek old ladies.

WTF hully

Why did god want you to hold your hand in the air?

I am an RMN and I prefer that my clients are experts in their illnesses and lives. I ask them to help train my students in what it is like living and managing serious mental illhealth. I want them to understand what their medication is, what it does and not just to toss it down as it is given to them. I encourage clients to research their needs, to learn how to differentiate between sources of infor and research and how to use what they learn when dealing with the system. I was very vocal in the establishing of service user representative groups to help clients deal with less than positive experiences.

I do not assume I know best. We aren't all the same. Please don't lump all staff together. I do not lump patients/clients together and see them as amorphous.

It's hard enough working in this strained to the limits NHS without feeling attacked from all sides. I understand the distress caused by bad treatment and attitudes, I have been a patient too. I am not minimising this distress. But please try to stay objective. We aren't all bad.

Hully. I suspect that may be the same nurse who told me god meant women to labour in pain as punishment for Eve's sin.

There's a lot of em, slug.

God's little helpers.

Atreegrows - If I were ever to develop MH issues I hope you are my nurse.

I am sure there is good practice in the NHS its a question of how the culture is changed so this sort of good practice becomes the norm across all disciplines.

I don't underestimate how difficult it is to do your job at times but I am sure you agree that in the long run poor practices lead to more work and problems.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude

Thank you. I really appreciated your words. I agree wholeheartedly that staff defensiveness can hinder honest examination of what goes wrong. Poor practice becomes embedded into the system via 'inheritance' in many cases. It is handed down from staff member to staff member and a culture of keeping quiet underpinned by undermining and often subtle bullying develops. Management don't care about patients. But they are protected from their wrath by layers of front line staff.

And then you get burn out and staff being less than honest with themselves about whether it is time for them to stop working with vulnerable people because their burn out renders them insensible to pain and distress and need.

it's so hard sometimes, being a nurse. I have paid the price in the past for speaking out about cruelty, disrespect and ill treatment of patients by staff. I do see it a lot and I also see the opposite.

During my own training, i will never forget being told that it is a privilege and an honour to care for and nurse the sick and the dying. I have never forgotten those words and hold them close to my heart.

Atreegrowsinbrooklyn -

I absolutely agree with you, not all are bad by any means, and thank goodness for the good ones!! In my experience nurses are far better than doctors/consultants - hell, even their secretaries are sometimes better at listening to patients than they are!! And I know staff are doing their best in hugely challenging circumstances.

You sound like the kind of health carer that anyone would be very lucky to have. But I think that's part of the problem - it is often down to luck whether you get good care or not... and it really shouldn't be

Yes it is down to luck. And no, it shouldn't be. I was and remain very passionate about my profession but some staff seem totally lacking in insight into how they come across. Even a small degree of brusqueness that somebody would brush off in everyday encounters, has devastating effects upon them when they are ill and a patient.
All staff need to monitor their demeanour. It is hard to wipe that frown off your face sometimes but we have to. A warm smile goes a long way even when we are so busy, patient contact is limited to task performance. But there are always ways in which we as staff can bring warmth to what we do. Over time, staff forget this. They become blinkered and 'battle weary'. Of course there are others who are simply bloody awful and shouldn't be in post. But it is easier for these people to go about their work unfettered than it used to be despite the increase in professional bodies that are supposed to promote accountability.

Atreegrowsinbrooklyn -
If you ever get the chance to train new nurses - DO!! They could really benefit from your wise words.

For all -

I've just come across this - the Department of Health are asking for people's views on developing a strategy for improving treatment & quality of life for people with long-term conditions!

I'm sure we'd all like to contribute our views!

www.publicservice.co.uk/feature_story.asp?id=19731

Judyblueeyes

I do mentor student nurses and am involved in the induction of SHO's and GP trainees onto their mental health placements so I do have some ability to pass on what I believe in.

For me, some of the problem also lies in the selection of students onto nursing training programmes. I'm unconvinced that the interview process adequately selects the best potential nurses. Whilst I don't think academic ability precludes nursing ability, I do think students are selected who lack empathy or the ability to develop it. I have also met quite a few student nurses (and student doctors) with some pretty alarming prejudices.