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Why you shouldn't support legislation blocking internet porn

899 replies

Andrewjh · 07/05/2012 00:21

Ed Vaizey and Claire Perry and a number of other politicians are trying to force ISPs to block adult content under the pretence of "think of the children", however this will have the opposite effect and could lead to children being exposed to far greater problems.

  • Children these days are very tech savvy, especially with regard to the internet. And they need to be - the UK is the largest internet economy in the world. To succeed in the UK in the future, you'll need to know your way around a computer and around the internet from an early age.

  • What happens when ISPs block sites is something called the Streisand Effect. Basically by banning it, they generate a huge amount of publicity and support for the sites. The Pirate Bay site last week got blocked in the UK, and it received traffic increases of 12 million users downloading millions of pounds worth of software, music, films and games. Blocking something increases its internet traffic, its exposure, and suddenly 30 times more people know about it than did before.

  • What also happens when you block these sites is a huge amount of internet users figure out free and easy ways around the blocks. ISP's don't have the resources to stop this, and in most cases, it is impossible for them to do so. anyway. The Pirate Bay blocks can be got around within 20 seconds, and that is just googling "how do I get around pirate bay blocks".

  • Many of the methods employed by users to get around the Pirate Bay blocks so they can illegally download files will also be posted as guides to get around porn blocks. These are accessible through any search engine (google, bing, yahoo).

  • The problem is that tech savvy children (it only takes one to find out how from the internet or an older brother, then tell his friends, who tell their friends etc) can easily find out how to get around it. I mean it is as easily as it is to look up something for their homework, if not easier.

  • The other more dangerous issue is that whilst once they've gone through those guides, they can easily find links to far darker sites which host horrific viruses, hackers, as well as references to drugs, drink and other adult content. They can also find links to anonymous chatrooms where they could meet anyone without you knowing.

  • This is the danger that opt in and blocking poses. They will give you a sense of security when there is none.

  • This is also based on the assumption that the block actually blocks all porn. They rarely ever do, and sites posing as sex education sites which don't get blocked get through with adult content. So you'll be under the illusion that the internet is safely blocked when it isn't.

Think of it like this. Imagine the internet is a cliff, and we are having a picnic at the top of the cliff. It's a mostly beautiful view, but if you let your guard down, you could fall off. You wouldn't let your child play near the edge. Installing the opt in system is like putting a strong looking but flimsy fence in place. You could be fooled in to thinking it was safe but left to their own devices your child, could easily fall through. We can't put a brick wall there otherwise it spoils the natural beauty of the view (the educational benefits of the internet).

So what to do? Firstly don't support legislation calling for blocks. It doesn't work, its been shown not to work in the past as well as more recently. Children can easily find a way around it, and in doing so find a far darker side of the internet.

Secondly: If you are concerned, use censoring software on your computer, but don't be content with just that. Use Browser tracking software like this - www.any-activity-monitor.com/free-browser-history-recorder.html so you can accurate tell what your child has been viewing, even if they delete it off the browser. There are also many simple, free and easy tutorials written online on how to better protect your computer and your child.

Thirdly: Take some time to talk to your child about internet use. It can be an amazing tool but it can be dangerous. They need to know that right and wrong, safe and risky, they all still apply online (something easy to forget I assure you). They'll avoid things if they know its wrong. They will be curious about things if its only blocked.

Lastly, don't be fooled by people using the "think of the children" line. It's an alarmist appeal to emotion. There is very little danger so long as you use your common sense and only allow a child a sensible amount of time on the internet. As a politics student, I have to question whether this has been saved up till now to gain support for the government after an miserable turn in recent polls.

Thanks very much for reading, I hope you'll consider your position.

OP posts:
Starwisher · 13/05/2012 21:44

"They will also only be allowed to access the computer when in a room with DH or me."

Oh yes, that sounds really realistic and thought out

Starwisher · 13/05/2012 21:46

Raven, do you honestly think teenagers wont look at porn becuase the teacher said they shouldnt?

It will make it even more appealing

Empusa · 13/05/2012 21:47

^"How about other peoples children who might not have filters set up?

How about when your children leave the house?"^

An ISP filter wont help in those scenarios either.

For one, other people may have opted out of the filter.

For another, even with the ISP filter in place it still doesn't eradicate the chance of them seeing porn. And if the other parents don't have home filters or supervise then the children will still have access to equally damaging material online.

I know when I first had the internet the craze amongst children my age was a site called Rotten which was full of autopsy photos, scene of crime photos, etc. Not porn, but I'm sure you wouldn't want your kids seeing that either.

The porn filter also wont stop the children being able to access things like pro-ana sites. Sites full of hate speech etc.

There is unfortunately no way of controlling what your children see at other peoples houses, you just have to educate them.

Empusa · 13/05/2012 21:48

Starwisher It's perfectly realistic for my household.

ravenAK · 13/05/2012 21:50

Where did I say that, as a teacher, I'd say 'Don't look at porn'?

Starwisher · 13/05/2012 21:51

Yes, yes we know your feelings on what wont work -can we not move it on until what will work.

Im not pushing for the filter, I never have, Im looking for ways to increase the protection.

You admit you cannot control what your kids see at others people houses- so you get one very curious tennager constantly going over to their mates house who has no controls.

It sure would beat sitting in the front room with mum and dad staring at you the whole time!

Starwisher · 13/05/2012 21:51

What is you need the toilet empusa?

Empusa · 13/05/2012 21:51

"You admit you cannot control what your kids see at others people houses- so you get one very curious tennager constantly going over to their mates house who has no controls."

So how will the ISP filter stop this exactly?

Empusa · 13/05/2012 21:52

I don't know about you, but I tend not to spend hours on the toilet. I'm sure my child wont become a porn hound if I leave the room for 5 minutes. Hmm

Starwisher · 13/05/2012 21:54

We are NOT talking about the filter! It has never been about that from my POV.

Once again, stop talking about what wont work and start talking about what WILL

ravenAK · 13/05/2012 21:55

What exactly are you pushing for, Starwisher?

If you're agreeing that the ISP filter wouldn't be the solution, are we back onto somehow making all those nice porn peddlars incorporate paywalls? We could try Jedi mind control on them I suppose...

Starwisher · 13/05/2012 21:55

So there will be times you will leave the room? See how unrealistic that idea is.

Bad in theory, bad in practice

Empusa · 13/05/2012 21:57

Forgive me for getting confused, obviously I should have guessed that due to the thread not being about the ISP filter.

Honestly I don't know. I wish I did.

I'd love to protect my DC from the nasty things in the world, but I can only do so much.

I can't control other people's computers, in the same way I couldn't control if my child went to a friends house and found their dad's porn magazine/video stash.

All I can do is educate. And hope.

Do you have any solutions?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 13/05/2012 21:59

Starwisher You are completely correct. End user filters have many flaws, as you have pointed out many users simply do not have them.

However, the suggestion of ISP filtering is even more flawed. Take all the flaws of a home filter and multiply them by lots.

Starwisher · 13/05/2012 22:01

So what do we do Itsall?

Do you we just doing nothing? Give up?

Empusa · 13/05/2012 22:02

So what would you do?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 13/05/2012 22:03

starwisher this thread is about ISP filtering. Have you read the OP.

We all agree it would be nice if our children were not exposed to porn on the internet.

Some of us think that an ISP filter is not the way to do this for reasons both technical, and political. This is what the thread is about.

NOONE is arguing that children should have free access to porn!

chandellina · 13/05/2012 22:04

Filters seem pretty effective at companies. That's because employees cooperate with the rules, as you expect your child would - for the most part, which is not to sniff at.

Starwisher · 13/05/2012 22:05

I have already detailed my idea, that I would like technology and legislation to evolve beyond what we have to make sure porn sites are sign-up with a credit card.

Apparently its a rubbish idea, but there is nothing to stop us working towards that goal and at least giving the idea a shot

Empusa · 13/05/2012 22:05

I've never worked at a company with an effective filter!

But that's by the by, because all you are proving there is that computer based (rather than ISP based) filters can be fairly effective.

NovackNGood · 13/05/2012 22:07

Starwisher you are coming across as rather obtuse and continually taking this argument round in circles.

Have you read the parliamentary report in full?

i will give you these few snippets.

i have avoided entering anything that Justine Roberts said as I did not want to get into using the mumsnet founders views but i feel you should read her own words as reported in the official transcript.

Page 38
Justine Roberts

Why do parents not put filters on when
83% say they are worried, why do a
similar number not employ filters? And I
think that has to come down to ease of use
and education. Google Safe Search would
stop the example I gave about Disney
fairies, that is pretty easy to put on. Most
people use Google to search, most young
children use a household computer - they
are not off on a mobile somewhere - it?s
pretty easy. Really, there is just an
education issue here of parents. Bear in
mind, most parents actually are
conservative, of course there are a few
that don?t care.

Deirdre Sanders: I don?t think it is that
easy to just flip the safe search on and off.

Justine Roberts: Yes, it is. It?s like three
clicks.

Starwisher · 13/05/2012 22:07

itsAll

This thread is now over 500 posts long and has evolved naturally in conversation like threads do.

Instead of repeating why it wont work, how about ideas that might?

Can we not be more positive and proactive for our children?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 13/05/2012 22:08

Starwisher As someone above said education is the way to go. Really comprehensive sex education starting at early age. Education about what porn is, who makes it, explotation yada yada yada. If sex was more normalised and less a dirty secret there would be less desire to seek out porn.

EdithWeston · 13/05/2012 22:08

This thread is about a specific proposal for a specific type of ISP based blocking.

And if you have DCs who you cannot trust to follow house rules if you are briefly absent when they are on a device with appropriate software and in a communal area, then you probably have wider behavioural issues to tackle as well as their online conduct, all of which fall under the recommendation for education and parenting.

ravenAK · 13/05/2012 22:09

Who's giving up? This thread is full of perfectly sane & sensible parents saying, well, this is what I'll be doing to stop my dc coming across awful, distressing, or inappropriate content on the internet.

There are solutions which are as effective as they'll ever be, short of moving to UAE, & we may not all agree (I'm anti smart phone but fine with supervised FB, someone else may be the other way round) but there's really no need for the hand-wringing.