Child guru says nurseries harm small children

[flashingnose]

oh dear

Like ELF I know of three couples who put themselves under great financial strain so that the Mum could stay at home. In each case disaster struck. Not good for the kids.

Thing is no parent sends their child to nursery lightly each probably does it with a heavy heart and I think he would have been more helpful if he had written a book helping parents who have no choice by giving advise on how to limit the effects of FT nursery rather than calling them names -'Slammers'.

Those SAHP here supportng Steve Biddulph's views what would you do if your partner put you under pressure to return to work. What would you do if he/she said it's not working and I think you should return to work for several reasons. Would you dig your heels in or would you consider his/her point of view?

This happened to 2 friends of mine. In one case the husband said that financialy it was crippling them and she needed to get out more and focus less on the kids as he thought the kids were spoilt and she was boring. SHe dug her heels in and now they have split up.

The other husband wanted her to return to work cos he was working silly hours just to keep payments up and he was exhausted. They are still together but they are not happy and resentment simmer. Good for the child?????

easy, once posted on a thread on here about how i'd been into waitrose three (count em, three) time in one day....and considered it something to do! (also shop in asda and sainsbos before you all start stereotyping me...

totally agree about isolation of sahmotherhood as practised atm

According to a study which I found

this

a parent is the number one choice, followed by nannies, then childminders, then grandparents, and then nurseries. ironically grandparents rate below childminders.

Easy you are wrong about keeping up with the Jones for many people. We have old car, haven't had holiday in 6 years and don't have gadgets like you describe. London Mortgages are why both of us have to work and I am not alone.

Here in Germany they are planning to introduce a payment of 67% of the SAHP's last net salary (max 1,800 euros/month) for a year after the birth of a child. 2 months have to be taken by the mother, 2 by the father and the rest can be split as the parents want. I can't wait.
I work ft (academia) and dh stays at home and works on his PhD. I am tremendously lucky - in that I can do a large proportion of my work at home and spread it into teaching-free time; in that we live 10 minutes' walk from my work, so that I can dash between work and home; in that I earn a good salary; in that dh can be at home. I am still bf on demand (ds is 8 months). The situation is still hardest on me though, as tbh I would prefer to be a 'conventional' sahm (but my earning power is currently more than dh's) and I seem to spend my life running around trying to do it all - be a full-time worker and a full-time parents (accompanied by bouts of jealousy at dh). We have both agreed that childcare under the age of about 2.5 or 3 is not an option for us, which limits us to being a one-wage family for the foreseeable future - our ideal scenario would have us both working pt.
I can't really pronounce on the effects of nursery care on young children, as I know f all about it; my personal feeling, however, is that I am very lucky indeed not to have to use it.

note parent not mother.

I keep waiting for this thread to really kick off.

Bump it up again the first Monday after 1/2 term, about 10am? [insert devious smiley here]

I went back to work partly to get a break from my kids. It was time I got paid (miserly pay, but still, I was quids in) to have a break from motherhood. Couldn't afford babysitters otherwise...

However... Basically I agree with much of what Biddulph/Leach have said, though I was happy to send my kids to good childminders part-time and would do so again.

Did say "not all" didn't I drosophila.

and (almost dare not say this, but here goes .....) why not move elsewhere if London is so difficult

Going to put on my hard hat now argggggggg

Cos London is DP home town and does not believe in moving our mixed race children to anywher that is not multicultural. He had experience of being the only black kid in his school so doesn't want it for our kids.

I totally agree with all your posts, sophable.

Plus the only chance of family help comes from London based family.

Hey listen love, every city in the UK is pretty multicultural now I think. Certainly Nottingham and Sheffield have extremely mixed communities (the 2 cities I know best).

Not multicultural enough for DP love. Personally I could live anywhere but DP feels London is more tolerant.

have to say we wont leave london for the same reasons.

Anyway moving a kid away from everything they know and love could upset their development .

I think the majority of people do what they genuinely believe to be best for themselves and their children. But just a few seem duped into this myth that nurseries are the most fabulous places for children, and the only place they could possibly learn social skills, etc.

A friend of mine and her dh were both working and travelling ridiculously long hours, they chose their ds's nursery purely because it had the longest hours. She was always at the doors of the nursery to drop him off when it opened at 6 am, and her dh would pick him up at 8pm when it closed ... every day!

But most days she could have picked him up earlier; but she chose to go to the gym instead!

IME it's a myth that London is more tolerant than other cities. I experienced more racism in my 16 years there than I have at any other time in any other city.

We also have to live near London for DHs work but have been priced out.

However, I think staying there to be close to your family is very valid. I really wish I had family nearer.

I wholeheartedly agree with Colditz that the most important issue here is our children and giving them the best foundation on which to develop. Wether or not the parents feel fulfilled has to be a secondary issue.

Well here is something of interest to those of you that think nurseries are the devil incarnate. Nurseries are not all bad

I bet I've killed this thread now cos you are all busy reading the massive link I posted.

is anyone a speed reader who can give us a bullet point summary????

About a third of the way through this article it says that the benefits being suggested are intended to refer to children between two and five years. For children younger than this:

"The authors strongly favour the extension of maternity and parental leave as an option for parents of very young children".

The difference in opinion between Steve Biddulph and the authors of this piece is only the difference between good nursery education becoming desirable at age two or age three. Below the age of two neither is recommending it.

The interesting part for me was the summing up on how difficult it is to conduct studies on childcare pg 71.

Complete diversion, but anyway.
We live in a "brownie-free zone" (my Indian friend's description!).

I'd love more brown-skinned people to move out to the rural sticks... would be wonderful for my kids to encounter more multi-ethnicity in their every-day-life (school). We used to live in a 48% Bangladeshi neighbourhood (about 20% other non-white) and I loved it (being an immigrant myself).