Worlds Apart...Parallels between Israel and South Africa

[Beetroot]

here

Gyst of it is that Israel has been compared to South Africa.

'The Jews took Isael from the Arabs after the Arabs hadlived there for a thousand years. Israel. like South Africa is an Apartheid state'

'If we take the magnitude of the injustice done to the Palestinians by the state of Istael, ther is a basis for the comparison with apartheid'

'Israel treats Palestinian residents of East Jerusalem as immigrants, who live in their homes at the beneficence of the authorities and not by the state'

'Muslims and Christians are barred from buying in the Jewish quarter of the old city on the grounds of 'historic patterns of life of each community having it's own quarter' But that didn't prevent the Israeli government from aggressively pursuing activities to place Jews within the Muslim quarter'

Discuss

It's hard to understand the day-to-day lives of residents of both of these countries.

I live in one (South Africa) and was brought up here during the apartheid years. I have spent time in Israel. Funny enough I know of a number of South Africans who have moved to Israel and feel very at home there - I think that says a lot about the parallel's that can be drawn between the two countries.

The issues are similar but the basics are fundamentally different - as somebody else mentioned, the non-white majority in South Africa was totally repressed for years. The Palestinians live with racism and discrimination on a different level.

Maybe we ignore the Israeli/Palestine problem 'cos we 'gave' the land to the Jews after WWII (I think). Also there is a very powerful pro Jewish lobby in America. It is a disgrace but we do tend to ignore alot of horrible things that don't impact directly. Look at Somalia, Rwanda, Zimbabwe etc.

Kittyfish - couldn't agree more. The political agenda in the face of what happens in Rwanda, Zim et al is driven by what's happening on the day around the world. These poor countries only get scant attention when nothing more exciting is happening - I think it is appalling!

Kittyfish - couldn't agree more. The political agenda in the face of what happens in Rwanda, Zim et al is driven by what's happening on the day around the world. These poor countries only get scant attention when nothing more exciting is happening - I think it is appalling!

I think Europe ignores Israel because it knows that America unconditionally supports the state of Israel and will continue to do so no matter what Israel does. So there's no point Europe huffing and puffing about all Israel's human rights abuses, because when the chips are down they're not going to allow their relationship with America to be compromised for the sake of the Palestinians.

Please realise that there is a DIFFERENCE between

JEWISH AND ISRAELI

yes I'm shouting .. it winds me up when people make the terms synonymous

Eh? Speak up!

Twiglett, you're right re: difference between jewish and israeli. But I couldn't see anything that anyone has written in this thread that used either term incorrectly, or did I miss something? Your point is particularly relevant however, when anyone who criticises Israeli is immediately labelled "anti semitic". Of course, a Semite is another thing completely, so there is a lot of ignorance out there....

"Also there is a very powerful pro Jewish lobby in America."

there may well be a powerful pro-Zionist or pro-Israeli lobby but pro-Jewish is just plain wrong

and yet you didn't see it .. amazing how blind we become

fair enough. i saw the jewish state, but not the jewish lobby.... (though of all the lobbies that exist in the US, there are probably lobbies representing the interests of jews, israelis and zionists...)

Twiglett, it also annoys me. There are many jews within Israel and outside who criticise the current situation and many more who are unhappy about it but less vocal. However, I imagine that after a few suicide bombings (I realise why it happens) a lot of people are no longer willing to be reasonable. Also it is not anti-semitic to cricise Israel in my opinion, although I guess after centuries of prejudice, racisim, expulsion and a holocaust, you are bound to feel victimised and hence defensive.

the west is spineless and cowardly in its tacit backing of Israeli expansionism and anti Palestinian racist land policy. I agree that the future of the so called road map lies in the hands of the US, which is right up the backside of the Israeli right wing.
And people are surprised that Hamas has been elected!
Ijust cannot post on this topic without losing my rag completely!

Sorry if I got the semantics wrong but I am merely repeating what I have read in various papers.

But the term "jewish lobby" has been used for decades. I didn't think it implied anything offensive.

What do think both sides are willing to live with in order to gain peace? My geography is not great.

I always think of the middle east crisis with sadness as arabs and israelis or alternatively muslims and jews have so much in common........compared to say other religions/cultures.

Of course am no expert so am sure a more enlightened mumsnetter will tell me differently.