Children in prison camps in North Korea. Guardian article today.

[Meglet]

Fucking North Korea. Kids in prison camps

Guardian magazine article.

I'm too angry and upset to write anything coherent TBH. AFAIK Amnesty are aware of it.

That is a truly awful and remarkable story.
North Korea is the most terrifying country on earth, by quite a long way.
My only hope is that the recent change in leadership will somehow result in changes in the country. The people there deserve so much better.

I know. They don't even know what the real world is like (IIRC even people in the cities think the rest of the world is like them) , it's all they know . Imagine being born in a prison camp and that's it, for ever.

I read the article.
I'd be happier if there was ANY corroborating evidence.

I don't want to read the article because I can imagine what it says
North korea is appalling - end of. I have friends who escaped from there. It is the most dire of dire places

I don't want to read the article because I can imagine what it says
North korea is appalling - end of. I have friends who escaped from there. It is the most dire of dire places

Corroborating evidence? There are literally hundreds of reports of these on the internet. They can't all be fabricated. There are satellite images of the camps (example), Amnesty International estimates 200,000 people are held in these camps. What sort of evidence would you like to see TalkinPeace? The secret nature of these camps and the fact that hardly anyone ever manages to escape would make it difficult to gather evidence and I imagine that anyone who has been to one/workerd in one would be too terrified to speak out.

The Guardian article was really shocking. Imagine being born in a place like that and not even being aware that anything exists beyond its boundaries.

Jesus. That's one of the most shocking and horrifying things I've ever read.

woolly
how can there be hundreds of such reports?
the article describes him as the only ever escapee from such a camp
and satellite photos do not corroborate descriptions of underground jails
the North Korean regime is offensive and repugnant
BUT
demonising people is not the best way to go - remember the stories we were told about what went on behind the Iron Curtain
however
the more light is shone into North Korea the better as THAT is what will make the fat boy leader weaker

Not sure calling him 'fat boy leader' is going to improve relations. but he is

Horrible story. It sounds like he has enough of the evidence on his own body.

There is corroborating evidence, but of course for some people there will never be enough evidence to believe these things happen, in the same way there are some people who deny the Holocaust happened.

Talkinpeace. I didn't say 'hundreds of first person accounts', now did I? There are reports from Amnesty, other human rights organisations, newspapers, news agencies, Japanese video footage, Wikipedia entries, etc.

I'm not going to try to persuade you - it's up to you what you choose to believe - but I'm willing to believe the Amnesty reports.

Talkinpeace - the article describes him as the only one born in such a camp to escape. There have been other escapes from NK prison camps.

Have a look at this article in which an escapee describes conditions in a camp called Yodok.

Or this about Camp 22 which suggests there are or at least were gas chambers. In this case it comes from a former chief of managment at the camp who fled North Korea

I am sure I can find lots more without really trying the internet is littered with accounts. The satellite images won't show it but Its very easy to believe a regime like this would have underground prisons and plenty of other nasties that have not yet been revealed.

faintpinkline
I stand corrected
and am MIGHTILY relieved to be so.

Trust me - I'm not the denier type : I have this name all over the interweb : I'm an auditor by habit. I want proof and evidence, then I reach a conclusion.

Once the Economist peppered its obit of Kin Jong Il with "I'm so wonewy" Team America references I knew that the clock was ticking
BUT there have been some shocking accounts that turned out to be false ( the Arab Spring lesbian eg)

The fact that he did not know what Pyongyang was rings utterly true
but they have clearly MASSIVELY glossed over his escape route to preserve it.

The most hopeful thing I've heard lately is that China is ramping up the power of the mobile phone aerials on the border so that their traders can make more money
AND
stopped jamming the south Korean signals
as a lightly fed populace is less rebellious than a starving one
with unforseen consequences

The saddest and most terrifying part of the story is that the child felt that the dreadful deaths of his parents and little classmate were deserved. Poor little boy.

and THAT is the part that the most cynical parts of me find the most believable

the brainwashing is SO total (as are many religious sects) that even utterly wrong seems to be right.

I read this last night in bed, but I had to re-read it this morning to make sure I hadn't dreamt it. Truly one of the most horrific things I've ever read. I am ashamed that I know so little about the north Korean situation.

Use well thy freedom

Its awful isn't it Talkinpeace. Take a look at what the camp manager says about children dying in the gas chamber (in the camp 22 article I linked too)

"'It would be a total lie for me to say I feel sympathetic about the children dying such a painful death. Under the society and the regime I was in at the time, I only felt that they were the enemies. So I felt no sympathy or pity for them at all.'

Again evidence of brain washing. Horrible regime. Everytime I read about them I feel grateful my family and especially my beautiful DD live when and where we do

faintpinklline
Those other articles were interesting. Thank you for the links.

It really is terrifying and I find it fairly believable that these and probably worse are happening.
I travelled to the boarder of North and South Korea about 6 years ago.
It was honestly the most terrifying place I have ever been.
The guards, the security, the atmosphere.
Even tourists are treated with mistrust and I did not feel at all easy.

I used to have a friend who was North Korean, but had spent most of her life in Japan. Even she still seemed quite brainwashed.
The control of information there is total, so the people don't realise what alternative lives actually exist.

I haven't even finished the article yet. Read most of it and scanned the rest . I'm going to see what Amnesty suggest westerners can do.

We're not loaded and life is stressfull but I look at well fed, healthy and free DD playing with her little trains (in her vest and pants ) and even the normal children in North Korea will never have that.

I first came across his story on Radio 4's book of the week. I can't believe what I read. It sounds like something awful from history, something I studied at school. But its not is it. Its happening right now, just as I write, and as you read. Babies are born in to it and then grow up without any love, hardly any food, no toys, no laughter, no song, no happy memories. All things my son has on a daily basis. They have to watch the executions of people who they should love, and as twisted at it is they have been brought up to feel nothing. It is just unthinkable. We need to do something about this. What shall we do?

Why do you think it couldn't happen, TalkinPeace? Has such a brutal society never existed before?

Series on North Korea. This is part 1 of 5.

2/5
3/5 My uncle, who served in WW2 and ended up not far from Bergen Belsen just as it was liberated, said that the smell of burning bodies is like the smell of roasting pork.
4/5
5/5

by someone calling himself MaoistRebel. It goes on for forty five minutes. (I want to do bad things to this moron with a rusty screwdriver).

I do not think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.