Children at the age of 5 being sent to discipline institutes?

[Emmielu]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2111844/Children-age-TWO-lessons-anger-management-contain-themselves.html

I dont know who this is helping. Parents may have to send their child to specialist schools to deal with their anger. That means some will have to move house in order to send their child there. What will the kids learn at these schools? The impression i got was that they would learn to control their anger. What about their education? Social skills wouldnt be helped there because they wouldnt know how to cope in mainstream schools. Kids dont respect their parents these days or adults because we cant discipline them without being told its wrong & we could have our kids taken from us. When & how is this going to end? When i was little if i was naughty id get a slap on the back of my legs with my mums shoe. Never did me any harm.

'Daily Mail', 'anger management', 'kids don't respect their parents', 'can't discipline them' 'slap on the legs' 'never did me any harm.'

HOUSE!

cogito

I know this is the DM, but the article seems to bear little resemblance to description in OP. The report seems to be calling for PRUs to be available to children at a younger age - in the hope that behaviour can be modified before it becomes nigh on intractable in the teen years. He is also calling for better training, generally for all staff and additionally for a stronger specialist cadre.

There is no suggestion of anyone having to move (just as there isn't for existing PRUs), and an expectation that earlier intervention will lead to swifter return to mainstream. Which sounds pretty laudable to me.

Emmielu, you might be interested in this article in the Daily Mail

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2112115/Anger-management-year-olds-The-State-wants-control-cradle-grave.html

That second article is dreadful, and curiously unrelated to the substance report. Classic DM!

At the moment there are two comments to that article which support the Czar. Let's wait and see what happens when Daily Mail readers read the article. My prediction is that they will in the majority agree with the journalist.

Guardian interview from 2010 with Charlie Taylor. Interesting reading.

Just read teh Guardian article. I can understand why it is in teh Guardian and not teh Daily Mail. I am not sure it would go down too well with Mail readers. Sounds a bit progressive.

Interesting that 'he was a contemporary of Cameron at Eton'.

'he came across a vacancy for a head's position at the Willows. "I had no credentials, but I thought, 'fuck it, I'll just go for it'.'
Blimey, maybe jobs are not so hard to get.

He does seem to blame Labour
'He touches on everything from the failure of New Labour to address entrenched problems such as the minuscule number of youngsters on free school meals (one barometer for evaluating educational meritocracy) who get A* grades in exams, to the benefits system (he calls it "entrapping")'

I don't know enough about the following, but find it a bit hard to believe that Labour were not helping improve performance of children at the lower end of the social scale.

'Taylor believes mainstream schools aggravate problems for the most vulnerable youngsters, accusing New Labour of being "incredibly paranoid", afraid to take real risks and introduce reforms that could have improved the performance of kids at the lower end of the social scale'

'He also rails against politicians in general for an "obsession" with testing and league tables.'
How does this fit with Gove's policies?

' he contends that league tables and tests have done nothing to make the system fairer'

hmmm, "fairer". It's that catch-all word again.

' he likes the idea of implementing a quota system requiring schools to allocate a proportion of places to children on free school meals as a way of mitigating against middle-class parents colonising the best state schools.'

social engineering? Not sure the Daily Mail reader is in favour of "quotas" and "mitigating against middle-class parents".

Is he middle-class or upper-class? He did go to Eton.

'He also proposes allowing pupil referral units to apply for academy status and gain independence from local authorities.'
Thought he might.

This is from another article
"David Cameron was ridiculed for suggesting hoodies would benefit from a hug now and then.
But headteacher Charlie Taylor - a contemporary of the Conservative leader at Eton - believes he was right, and has taken the approach further."

www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/head-who-transformed-school-of-young-thugs-with-hugs-6728929.html

Not sure Daily Mail readerrs would agree with this. It's better for Guardian readers.

Just looked at the comments on that Daily Mail article. The two comments supporting teh czar have already attracted red arrows and a new comment
'The end of the individual and the begining of the brainwashed masses'
has already attracted a green arrow from Daily Mail readers. But it's early days yet. But many Daily Mail readers are only ordinary conseervative voters so why should their views count?

When he ave those (very similar) interviews, there was a Labour government, so pointing out their (then current) shortcomings wouldn't have the same resonance as now. And academies were seen as the great way forward then.

It does seem that he has direct experience in dealing with troubled pupils and successfully managing the type of institution to which they are sent.

Good point, I didn't realise that he was criticising Labour when they were in power.

More of the tsar's recommendations

The guide ? sent to all state schools in England ? says pupils should be expected to move around corridors and classrooms in an ?orderly manner? at all times.

Heads are told to identify teachers failing to uphold good standards of behaviour and ensure staff set a decent example to children by remaining calm at all times, learning pupils? names and greeting them as they enter and leave the classroom.

Staff are urged to run through the checklist twice a day ? in the morning and after lunch ? to maintain consistent discipline standards.

It also underlines the importance of keeping staff in check, including ensuring individual teachers remain calm and do not over-use rewards or punishments. The worst teachers should also be identified and monitored, it suggests.

Heads are told to personally patrol lunch halls and playgrounds and check buildings are clean and well maintained.

In a further move, it says staff should ?check up on behaviour outside the school? and give ?feedback to parents about their child?s behaviour?.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8834746/Schools-issued-with-discipline-checklist-to-boost-behaviour.html

Update on comments on Daily Mail article.
The Daily Mail reader is increasingly showing support for the journalist known as 'Bossy Sossy' in her more stroppy days, and is increasingly giving the thumbs down to supporters of the tsar from Eton.

' The worst teachers should also be identified and monitored, it suggests.'

What about the worst pupils?

'In a further move, it says staff should ?check up on behaviour outside the school? and give ?feedback to parents about their child?s behaviour?.

I suppose it also says that staff should set a good example and remain calm at all times when they receive a volley of abuse from some parents.

But you've got to hand it to Eton. If you're wondering who's eaten all the pies, it's probably thw feller in the old school tie.

That set f recommendations " follows the publication of figures by Ofsted (in 2010) that revealed standards of behaviour were not good enough in almost a third of secondary schools and one-in-10 primaries"

Just to be clear - the first part of the thread is about the report coming out now; then it's older background on this tsar, and the "more recommendations" Claig refers to in those last three posts are from. DofE publication of October 2011.

Have any teachers on here seen it? Has much attention been paid to it?

(It does seem as if it's rather like the new phonics check - repeating stuff that good teachers do automatically anyhow, that wouldn't need saying if everyone was that good. I'm not teacher-bashing, rather that pointing out that the abilities of heads and teachers probably talks naturally on a bell curve, and attention/support may need to targeted to support the weaker performers).

Just to cross timelines yet again - here he is on MN in September 2010.

Emmielu Thu 08-Mar-12 10:09:37
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2111844/Children-age-TWO-lessons-anger-management-contain-themselves.html

"Kids dont respect their parents these days or adults because we cant discipline them without being told its wrong & we could have our kids taken from us. When & how is this going to end? When i was little if i was naughty id get a slap on the back of my legs with my mums shoe. Never did me any harm."

I think it is a fair bet that he is not speaking about your ordinary 5yo who is growing up in an ordinary family and responds to ordinary discipline.

He is speaking about the kind of child who was equally out of control in the 70s or 80s (and, if born in those earlier times, is now swelling the prison population). The criminal of today is the child of yesterday.

Several cultures manage to bring up well disciplined children without smacks on the leg. Individual families in any culture do not manage it, for whatever reason- whether because of something wrong with the family or something wrong with the child. It would obviously be of enormous benefit to society if more of those children could be reintegrated into society rather than going into a life of crime.

I think there is a bit of an over reaction. I doult that anyone is suggesting Borstel for two year olds. Its more likely that a two year old with abnormal development (possibly including behaviour) would be referred to the local child development centre. A paediatrian would rule out problems like glue ear and team of professionals would support the family.

Why this is needs a new intiative is beyond me. However politicans have had new initatives for years.