Sicily - pitchfork rebellion

[bochead]

Sicily has rebelled and it's citizens are demanding the following:-

The arrest of all corrupt politicians

Reduction in the number of Parliamentarians

Removal of the provincial bureaucracy (local crooks), as most of these politicians have been there for over forty years

Drastic cuts in the salaries and privileges of Parliamentarians and Senators

Restricting politicians to only two terms in office

www.veteranstoday.com/2012/01/31/sicily-pitchfork-movement-in-revolt-western-media-blackout/

Does anyone else wish this could happen here?

'Have you seen the kicking Dave's been getting in the Telegraph lately?'

The Telegraph and Mail have often been against Cameron, but that hasn't involved economic instability, strikes and the shutdown of infrastructure. When it comes to strikes, even New Labour are often with the government and against the unions.

There are all sorts of protests here in Italy at the moment, the reason why it hasn't been reported is that the BBC and press in the UK in general usually covers very little of what happens in Europe, imho.

It's my humble opinion that you're right Franca

I didn't say that Berlusconi's media is not dumbed down, only that our media often is.

There are, of course, some notable exceptions, such as the Daily Mail's reportage of climate change etc.

wonders what the colour is in Claig's world that promotes such faith in the independence and general resistance to dumbing down of a media overwhelmingly controlled by Silvio Berlusconi

The colour of the sky, I mean.

Oh fuck everyone! Take cover! The sky's actually falling in.

Seriously, I'm going to have to stop talking to you now claig because too much laughter gives me hiccups.

You're a journalist, aren't you? Why don't you write something about the pitchfork movement in Sicily or will that give the editor hiccups too?

I am, but because I've specialised in entertainment and arts for about 20 years, my various editors may be interested by such a piece but be a little stumped at where to put it.

Therefore I leave such pieces to the hands of political, industrial and foreign correspondents who are as skilled in their areas as I am in mine.

I do like to discuss current affairs and the media from time to time. But only with people I'm confident know what they're on about.

'I do like to discuss current affairs and the media from time to time. But only with people I'm confident know what they're on about.'

Well, that's why we all read Mumsnet as opposed to the mainstream media (apart from some notable exceptions).

franca a friend of mine is an economics professor at Bologna who did part of his education in London.

Because of his background and workplace he is Left-wing which I am too. Less so than him. But apart from an overview I don't understand the politics of Bologna and its place in Italian politics.

He was and is a staunch admirer of Gordon Brown. Was that just him or were Brown, and Blair, regarded well in Italy? If so, why?

It's not an interrogation. I'm just interested

I have friends in Rome who are less politically-motivated but hold different politics, as different people do.

They still retain a regard for Berlusconi but more because they see him as a charming old rogue, a success in business and with women and because they think it doesn't really matter who's in charge because they're all shafters.

Limited I'm glad you agree with me that the UK media aren't that interested in European news.

No, your friend is not the only Italian admirer of Brown and Blair.
You have to bear in mind that the Italian Left Wing entered a big crisis after the fall of the communist block in 1989. Until then, Italy had one of the biggest Communist Party in Europe.
The PCI had to change its name and nature, due to external and internal pressures to modernise (which also came following "Mani Pulite" in the early 1990s, I am sure you've heard of Mani Pulite). Sadly, Mani Pulite instead of leading the way to a reformed left wing party, lead to the rise of bloody Berlusconi and the evil Northern League.
Basically, I think that the Left Wing was quite fascinated by the rise by NL, it was thought that also the Italian Left wing coalition should have been inspired by "The third way". Yes, the Italian Left wing would have loved to have found our own Tony Blair.

As an Italian lefty (more or less) who lived in England from 1999-2007, I wouldn't really throw to the dogs the entire decade!
For many Italians who wanted to study and have an academic career, the UK was a wonderful destination in the late 1990s, where you could advance on your merits instead of personal recommendations as it happens in Italy.

Yes, Mani Pulite. It went wrong. Could it ever have gone right?

I have a lot of contact with people from different bits of Italy.

I might be wrong, and please tell me if I am, but my view is:

Milan, Turin, Padua, Modena and other places I know on the Swiss and Slovenian borders regard themselves as the powerhouse of Italy and would like to secede.

Mental and selfish, I think. Like the area within M25 in England declaring itself a Republic. I'm sure there are oddballs here who think that but the view has serious currency in Italy.

Bologna regards itself as of the North, a serious city in industry, education and politics, but definitely not of the Northern League.

Florence, I always find Northern in its attitudes and superiority to the South - eg the rest of Italy - despite the reality of it being mainly a city of tourism now.

Rome, which I think is regarded by Northerners as the South but tolerated because it's the centre of government.

South of Rome which most Italians I know warn me about as in 'here be dragons'. I have seen people travelling from south to north in third class on the trains with their livestock and also whole families in Naples riding on scooters like a motorcycle display team. The poverty in the South is shocking.

I have friends who live in the South but they are at pains to say they are in it, not of it. I don't know any real Southerners.

I don't want to be superior because British people are smug and naive about the integrity and competence of our politicians and business people. Maybe the Huhne/Fred the Shred/expenses scandals episodes will end that but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm going to let Stephen Hester off because I've seen no evidence of incompetency or dishonesty.

But I do think that in Britain we have the view that we ought to pay our taxes and obey the law, not because we're good, but because we know what might happen.

Harry 'I'm as honest as the day is long/ as long as the daylight, the less I do wrong' Redknapp notwithstanding.

Italian friends think we're fools.

God, that was long. If you're still with me, thanks for reading.

Oh, after all that I still forgot something.

The suicides in the '90s - is that what you and bochead are talking about in terms of fear?

If so, I just cannot get my head round it.

1. Thankfully not every single person in Northern Italy is dreaming of secession. Milan and Turin at the moment are run by a left wing council, for instance. And yes, the area Milan-Veneto-Emiglia is one of the wealthiest areas in Europe, and there is some resentment towards the central government.
2. Southern Italy is a very complex reality. It's poor and crime ridden because of mafia, camorra, etc. Its population should be even more angry. It is, however, outstandingly beautiful, and not just a land of poor people and mafiosi. It'd be great if we could have a government with a new project, a new vision for Southern Italy, which tried to fight the corruption and crime, while forging a new, lively economy for it. Berlusconi, despite traditionally having always got lots of votes from Southern Italy, hasn't done anything, apart maintaining the status quo, imho (which is what he did in general, NOTHING)
3. Lots of Italians pay taxes and abide the laws, like me for instance. I've never jumped a queue in my whole life. Sadly the country is split 50:50 in its ethics.

Which suicides are you talking about?

The suicides I heard of in the corruption investigations in the '90s which seemed really pat to me. I don't understand why people wouldn't ride it out. What's the worst that could happen?

Maybe it's just that I heard of the suicides of some people when most people faced with corruption scandals put their heads down and got on with it.

Southern Italy: I don't understand the support for Berlusconi unless it's based in organised crime. He's not even from the South, is he?

The last big scandal before bunga bunga (it's all treated as a bit of a joke here) I read about in our papers was a couple of years ago when what seemed like all of Italy's and much of western Europe's rubbish including toxic waste was dumped on the outskirts of Naples. WAs that true? Has it been cleaned up?

I have one friend in Naples. I spent some time there with him. He's from Turin but makes a living tattooing gang members. He's not terribly representative, I admit, but he's a friend. It's busy work and they can be lavish in their loyalty and remuneration. They don't tend to live beyond 30. Sounds terrifying and grim to me but that said I haven't spent time in close proximity to gang members from other countries.

I'm not intending to be patronising or deliberately annoying btw. I'm just interested.

Feel free to tell me to fuck off or alternatively ask me about the Lib Dems and the politics of the Home Counties vs the Grim and Terminally Declining North any time you want

I just read that back and realised I sounded really dumb and offensive.

I'm not like that. Just enquiring and a bit pissed. I'm leaving it now.

No worries Limited, it wasn't offensive at all!
I like your definition of the Terminally declining North, as it perfectly fits the south of Italy, to my great sadness. I love southern italy, it's so beautiful and yet tragic, so difficult to describe.

Berlusconi got lots of votes in the south, because traditionally there is a huge number of very conservative, right wing voters in the south. Berlusconi inherited those votes that used to go to the Democrazia Cristiana before the 1990s scandals.
And i won't get into describing the possibility of links with organized crime, as it's too complicated for my english!

The suicides... There are conspirancy theories that some of these have been staged. i don't know, perhaps they killed themselves because they were scared to help uncover more serious crimes, i don't know.

It is a mess. Italy is difficult to explain, at the same time I also love it!

My father is now in Cassino and moaning about the cold. He says their hotel room is like a fridge. I advised he use his dodgy circulation as a lever to get them to put a heater in the room. I think he'd rather just be glum about it. Not sure this holiday is turning out quite as balmy and pleasant as he'd hoped, which is a shame as it's his first trip away since being very ill through 2011.

I hopr it warms up and he has a great time. It's a beautiful place, lots of history and great food.

Is he there for the commemoration of the battle? Brave man. It sounded like Hell on Earth.

Tell him to make a great deal about that and complain loudly in Reception until they've reluctantly turned on the 3-bar single radiator. It's not their fault. A lot of Italian hotels don't really do heating because most tourists want to come when it's boiling. He can huddle round it wrapped in the dodgy blankets from the top of the wardrobe.

It'll give him something else to tell his grandchildren.

He hasn't mentioned that to me but it would make sense- he's a bit of a history buff, but also loves Sicily. He has been in the Spring before but I fear he may gone slightly too early this time.

Just found this thread an interesting read as i know very little of Italy yet half my family is Italian. My mum was born and brought up in Naples.
Ive only been back twice,both times as a child at the ages of 4 and 10 so remember very little. Mum didnt bring me and DB up as bilingual so i dont even speak it (hangs head in shame) mums side of the family have a place in Cercemaggiore near Campobasso. my Dad is British and we as a family have always lived in England. Just marking my place. Will be back to read more.

Limited just to add to what Franca said regarding support in the south for Berlusconi I think it has to be looked in context with mani pulite and the exposure of the corruption and ineptitude of the status quo that happened at that time. Apart from the influence of organised crime (and you only have to look at the hugely out of proportion with the rest of the country support he got in Sicily to see this) there was also the element of this self made everyman coming along, promising change and infecting those that hadn't got anything with an Italian version of the American dream. He did precisely zero for these people but I think his popularity there was also sealed by what he didnt do (eg nothing regarding tax evasion etc). And now you have a situation where Monti is stamping down on tax evasion country wide and there is a big difference between a northern based lawyer having to admit he earns more than ?18k a year and a shopkeeper in Sicily in a depressed economy suddenly finding himself having to choose between paying tax and food bills. So people have had a rude awakening to the reality of the Berlusconi years and are angry. In the few weeks we have seen mass protests by hauliers, fishermen, lawyers, taxi drivers etc etc.

Totally agree with the fact that Italians do protest regularly however. I am a Brit living in Rome with Roman DP and son and barely a week goes by without a protest, march, strike. In comparison to what we see here the hysteria regarding one recent public sector strike in the UK baffled me to be honest and just served as a reminder to me of how far Britain has moved from the concept of public protest so going back to Claig's point I don't think the Government in the UK need worry about this changing at any point soon!

There are all sorts of protests here in Italy at the moment, the reason why it hasn't been reported is that the BBC and press in the UK in general really covers very little of what happens in Europe, imho.
Couldn't agree more. Drives me insane that all my family and friends in the UK hear about Italy in the UK press is Bunga Bunga, Capitano Schettino and his "but it's dark" comment, mafia, camorra etc etc. Again agreeing with Franca - Italy is a mess but I love it too - there is so much more to it than this and so many more interesting stories to be reported on.

Excellent, excellent post from Gio, who, as usual, proves to have more grip on the italian situation than most Italians!
I totally agree with you gio re tax evasion.
Duchesse, your poor dad has chosen the coldest time ever to travel here!

Duchesse, yes, february is one of the coldest months in italy, but often sicily is still pretty mild compared to the rest of the country. Your dad has just been really unlucky, as it is so cold in europe right now!

Just wanted to add, berlusconi and his party were also able to win votes in exchange if favours, things like einning tenders for big procurements or jobs for half the family... Sad but very true unfortunately