Sun Journos and serving police officer arrested

[bkgirl]

content.met.police.uk/News/Operation-Elveden-arrests/1400006257312/1257246745756

Interesting, I hope the people its not just the lower ranks that get charged and reckon the instruction/approval cam from the top of NI.

When is Elvedon going to arrest James Murdoch? Then again maybe just let the american police feel his collar.....

Dad just said if the police are going through the bank statements and catching this stuff, what the heck were NI's accountants doing and as for the Inland Revenue - did they turn a blind eye? A sme wouldn't get away with it!!!!!

Could this lot be sacrifices to save the real culprits?
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I can't see the Murdochs being touched in this country but the Jude Law case where his phone was hacked while he was on US soil might do for them.

It's an offence there and the Murdoch's enemies within News Corp and rival media organisations probably won't let it drop. I might be wrong but I think the Murdochs would be held responsible for that in some way even if they didn't know it was happening.

They've arrested senior executives at The Sun - ex-deputy Fergus Shanahan, ex-managing editor Graham Dudman, crime editor Mike Sullivan and head of news Chris Pharo. Without saying they're guilty it would be quite difficult for them to say they didn't have a clue what the payments they were signing off were for.

I don't remember whether Rebekah Brooks's time overlapped with Shanahan and Dudman. I think they have to question her again about her rash statement to the Commons committee about paying police officers.

I'm still stunned by that. It's possible that she didn't realise that was illegal - not that it lets her off. I can't understand how anyone can't at least have an inkling that might be a crime but that's the only explanation for her outburst I can come up with.

I'm not surprised HMRC didn't pick it up. Companies are legally obliged to report all payments to HMRC but HMRC are looking for tax dodging not police corruption. And maybe these payments didn't go through the books.

Similarly NI's accountants. They have reponsibility to keep the company on the side of the law but I can't see how they can know about every decision by a senior executive.

I'm very pleased the Met have finally decided to trundle into action. I wonder if more senior officers than the one arrested this morning are worried?

limited, I am so with you on (all of the above) and especially with the stunned at Rebekah Brooks statement, perhaps it shows it was such common practice that she really thought it was fine? Do you know which accountants signed off NI's books - was it one of the big companies PWC etc?

Regarding the repercussions stateside, was there not something serious about bribing police officers?

It looks increasingly like it was very common practice but Andy Coulson knew it was wrong and jumped in to correct her. She didn't appear to get that. I don't understand how anyone could do that.

Maybe it comes from their differing backgrounds. She was a secretary on the NoW magazine with a flair for hard work and chasing women's magazine and showbiz stories. It would be possible to miss important aspects of law.

She also appears to have put in a stint at the Sorbonne which is a remarkable achievement for a working class girl from Wigan. No doubt it's true.

Coulson has a more conventional training through the NCTJ, local papers, and national newsdesks which is very rigorous. Generally when such people bend or break the law they know it. Not that ignorance of the law is a defence.

Maybe people just assumed she would know or maybe it was: 'Rupert likes Rebekah, she has some gaps in her education and your jobs are to fill them in. Don't argue'

I don't know. I never worked with her.

Obviously newpapers have always bought policemen a drink - either a real one or an Arthur Daley-type drink - and both are illegal but it's always depended on how big a drink it is and no one really wants to look at it.

I suppose that will have to change but I don't see how the changes will work.

US companies are very strict on either accepting or giving inducements, which sounds great until you realise that you are still expected to do business with people who expect rewards (I'm not just talking about journalism now).

The compliance rules mean that you sign a form saying you know it means instant dismissal and possible prosecution and the company can wash their hands of you. Meanwhile if you don't pull in the business because your clients don't like you any more the company sacks you for being unproductive.

No idea about the accountants but I can't believe they won't have protected themselves much like the outside legal firms commissioned by NI to look into this matter, but not too closely.

I don't know about US law but I believe that the Murdochs are vulnerable because they can be held responsible for what an employee did even if they didn't know. I don't know how much will there is to pursue them but I guess there are News Corp shareholders who want to wrest control from them.

thanks for your informed answer, if you are not in the business it can be rather confusing.

It's no hardship. I love this.

I really want to see police arrests and at a senior level too. The Met should be made to bring in an outside Force to investigate this.

But I don't think this is going to happen because it will touch too many people in governments past and definitely present.

There's a very enlightening little chart attached to your link called something like: Dodgy bastards, how they are related. Or something...

Thanks limited, I've always been surprised that Rebekah made such a damaging statement and unable to understand how any journalist could not realise it was illegal. But you are right, someone who wasn't trained and didn't bother to get any training could well not realise what they were saying. The thing that bothered me was that she got away with it for so long - clearly neither the police nor the politicians wanted to dig through that particular muck heap.

It's very mucky indeed. Like the trial into the axe murder of the private investigator, Daniel Morgan, in pub car park which collapsed last year because of flawed police evidence.

One of Morgan's alleged murderers was on the NoW's payroll of PIs and another was a Met copper who was on the original investigation and who became his business partner.

I'm not diminishing the anguish of the Dowler family or their right to get the NoW for their revolting behaviour but at least the NoW didn't do business with anyone entangled in Milly's murder.

Though it must be said that all defendants sent to trial for the murder of Morgan were acquitted or had charges dropped and left court without a stain on their characters.

One of them even resumed his lucrative employment with the NoW after serving his sentence for perverting the course of justice in another matter.

That's rehabilitation of offenders in action. Perhaps the NoW would have started a campaign about it if only it hadn't been shut down.

I suppose if the payments to police were on expenses the Sun executives could explain that they signed them off without knowing what they were for.

Then they could blame individual reporters who've already been questioned.

I suppose it would spoil things a bit if those reporters said they had detailed the payments or if anyone came forward to claim they were ever asked to go through their expense claims with senior executives.

I take that thing about Milly Dowler back. Surrey Police knew within a month if her disappearance that NoW had intercepted voicemails and fouled up the inquiry with their own investigations because they had meetings with NoW journalists to discuss it.

And yet they didn't charge anyone with any crime and still haven't.

So the Met should hand over the investigation to another force but just not the Surrey one. I wonder if there's any force who've not had criminal dealings with NI and other news organisations?

Goodness, just seen www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/jan/29/data-pool-3-sun-arrests-murdoch
Thing is it's really not just the NOW, I wonder where it will end. Still, no-one can be above the law and they obviously were for far too long. That Daniel Morgan thing sounds absolutely awful ....so is the case closed? In light of all this it seriously needs a fresh and independent investigation. Scary stuff.