we earn less tha the 26k benefits cap and ds knows this - now he's asking us are we living in poverty, eg "I didnt know we were so poor mum"....

[ssd]

what do I tell him, yes we are poor?

I don't usually feel poor, I get minimum wage, dh gets 7£ an hour, we both work and pay all our bills

we dont have holidays and nights out, but there are loads of people living like that now

I've explained to ds about the welfare reforms and to someone of 12 it sounds simple, eg. why dont they work or do the sort of jobs you do mum (cleaner, babysitter, dishwasher, all crap minimum wage jobs), or why do they stay somewhere where their rent is so high, we couldnt aford to live there so why does someone who doesnt work live there?

....and so on

sigh...I dont know what to tell him, I just always say stick in at school so you might be able to get a batter job than me and your dad and you might have more choice than us

I do slightly, yes...

But, if you're employed what you do has some impact on your income, bearing in mind my made up family was either employed or part of a couple previously and were paying their own rent or mortgage.

Statistically, longterm claimants are more likely to already be in social housing, so they're not going to be affected.

If you're going to look at benefit reform, it's length of claim (excluding disability related ones) that should be looked at, not amounts IMO.

Peachy I live on estate and we done the same thing discounting the 18 new properties built last year

There is only 50 properties belong to LHA where once the whole estate would have been and I'm willing to bet the people living in the brought council houses are not the original buyers

'I have 2 (pre-existing) preschoolers and a work ethic. I am not going to put them in nursery so I can scrub fucking loos just to make 'the righteous taxpayer' feel I am beneath them?
I mean, what the actual FUCK would you want that for? I am not saying it's beneath me (it isn't) but I think having fuck all to get a hair cut or buy myself shoes/clothes is bad enough- don't you?'

I have been a chambermaid, waitress, clerk, looked after other peoples kids, and even gave out flyers dressed as various fancy dress things in the middle of my town all for minimum wage for my DD. I would rather do all of that than claim benefits when I am capable of working. I have never claimed HB either or jsa etc because there is not a single thing I would turn down as a job.

I would work opposite shifts to my DH then to avoid childcare costs as I have plenty of times already. I stnd by it there is no way on hell I would work unless I was disabled or had a child with SN.

OP why burden your 12 yr old with your household economics? I don't understand that at all. There is nothing he can do about it other than worry. I think that is thoughtless on your part and sad for him.

MollieO I doubt OP has sat down and given her dc a lecture on family economics but they are seeing reports on the news and dcs, whether you tell them straight or not, can be pretty suss about how things lie budget wise.

I wholeheartedly disagree you would have to be stupid to work when you could get the same for doing nothing. A lot of people here think like that, and I definitely disagree with that way of thinking.

I dont agree with any of them, I just live by my own moral code of my children seeing me working for what we have. Not everyone wants to live like that (well hardly anyone at the bottom or top tbh )

I think it is disrespectful for people to come on here and say they wouldnt do it, its not worth it, you would have to be an idiot etc. Its good some people do do it else there would be essential jobs not getting completed. However most of my town has a similar attitude both the ones with families and the ones without. Why work when you get something for nothing? People think Im an idiot in rl for doing it, and thats what pisses me off.

Two the OP told her ds what their household income is. That is what I mean about burden. When I was growing up I knew that we didn't go on foreign holidays, didn't go on holiday every year and lived in a small house and I couldn't have a pony. I also knew that my father worked 6 days a week and did the weekly shopping in his lunch hours during the week, seeking out bargains (my mum rarely agreed with his choice!). It was only after he died a few months after retiring and I did his probate I realised quite how little money my parents had.

In today's parlance we were poor but it never felt like that when I was growing up. I'm glad I didn't know that as a child. Surely one of the most important things we can give our children is the gift of a carefree childhood? It isn't always possible, of course, but to deliberately share that sort of burden leaves me rather

I worked dressed up as something a bit silly in my town and gave out flyers. 2 people I have the unfortunateness of knowing came up to jeer at me and say what I was doing was trampy when both of them didnt have jobs and were taking their kids down the beach. That is not the only comment I have had by far.

Things like that and attitudes like that really piss me off, and the comments up thread about people working doing that are stupid. if you want to take the money its up to you but people like me who do work and believe in doing it arent stupid for doing so, even though most people think we are.

molly3478 It's not necessarily that easy to find evening or weekend work that fits around your partners job. I know I haven't found one. My partner is at college 2 evenings a week and the evenings change termly, he is also at college some weekends and does occasional overtime on the weekends. I honestly don't believe that there is a job out there that would be that flexible as to fit around all of this. At the moment we don't claim any benefits other than CB and hopefully I will find a job before we have to as we still have some savings left but I do worry about what might happen. We are entitled to (but don't claim) some housing benefit as we live in an area of high rents. So you say we should move oop north to where the rents are cheap (but there are no jobs!)? That would mean my partner leaving his job which also pays for his professional training. Without his job we would be a whole lot more reliant on the state.

what TSC said. In fact, dh said pretty much the same thing earlier

I also think its pretty disrespectful to sniff and sneer at other peoples' circumstances from an ivory tower. 7 years ago, dh had a very good job as a buyer, I was a restaurant manger overseeing service in a small but popular chain. then ds was born, my bladder was put in the wrong place, I became severely depressed, dh was made redundant because he had to take time off work (I kept collapsing at home) my body is now utterly wrecked and I will never work FT again, in fact, Im going to have to leave my shitty 2 day a week job soon because Im in too much pain. DH works PT for a high street store. no more hours, but hey, its a job.

there but for the grace of god, go I. we are all one illness or relationship breakdown away from being on the bones of our arses and relying on the state that we have paid into.

I dont live up north I have a mortgage down South that I pay on minimum wage hardboiled possum I definitely have no intention of moving to the North, or would suggest anyone else would have to move there.

I do understand there are not many jobs hardboiled and have no problem with people who clim as they have lost their job to help them along. I do have the problem with people saying why work, its not worthwhile, why do you do it when you get more for free etc. Unfortunately I am surrounded by that atttude in my area and so it is a bit of a contensious issue for me.

Lissielou - thank you so much for sharing your story on here. I've seen so many times how it's encounters with real people and their actual lived experiences that challenges peoples beliefs and assumptions. I've found meeting people from different cultures and backgrounds has challenged some of the ways of thinking I grew up with too. For one thing my faith beliefs are much more liberal, broad, inclusive - and interesting ! - than the ideas I heard in childhood.
My best wishes to you and your young family x

I think the problem is, no-one thinks it will happen to them.

I was going back to work when DS was 3m old. I came from a family on benefits during Thatchers PMship, no chance that would happen to my son. I had a very good job, I was pretty indispensable to the business. even IF dh lost his job (and that was a long shot) my salary would cover us for a while.

then life happened and it all went wrong. I tend not to discuss our financial circs on here (I know what the vultures are like) but we make ends meet and juggle (dh isnt eligible for anything, no tax credits or IS, nothing) ds is healthy and we eat cheaply and well. but when the cooker goes, we're screwed. If theres a crisis (Ive just had wisdom teeth out and gums are still bleeding, cant afford to go to the hospital, it'll wait til morning) we're screwed.

We didnt plan for this life. this wasnt supposed to happen, and I refuse to be sneered at by someone who doesnt want to understand or learn empathy.

WRT to working for nothing

Well my own take on that is that anyone who has any choice ought to be rateful for that alone- I'd love to be able to make choices without the care needs becoing the over riding factor that dictates everything

but otherwise- why would you make that choice? HOw many 5 year olds do you know who whena sked say 'I want to live in a shite council flat and claim JSA' instead of 'fly a rocket to the moon whooooosh'. So what happens to those kids between that age and school leaving I wonder?

One of the things about DH working even though it's taken a good time to make a profit is the boys seeing that he does it, absolutley. We'd probably be better off if he ahdn;t, at least voer the past few eyars tbh- free school meals etc- but dignity is worth so very much and that's too people on council estates as well as those naking squillions (or even just NMW).

I know there \re a few people who work on the 'it's too much effort if I only get a tenner extra' philosophy but theya re not common, and it's about more than cash anyhow: it's far easier to get a new elase if your landlord wants their place back, you get cheaper car insurance apparently, credit if you are a user of it.

I tell you what, SecondComing, I, the taxpayer, am not 'morally ok' with your lifestyle choice. I think you're a disgrace.

You would be setting a better example to your kids if you did go out and clean toilets. At least then you would be providing for them.

And if her epilepsy causes her to fall during a fit and bang her head on said toilets, as happened to somene I used to know?

You going to help with her kids whilst she is in hospital?

no thought not.

Oh and hunty

We, a different family of taxpayers, wish you all the best and think you do an amazing job- as do my aprents who are still paying taxes and employed into their seventies.

Bobbysmum is not THE taxpayer, she is A taxpayer.

MollieO, I'd agree with you there. What I earn is not the business of dts but I do try to instil a sense of budget to them. Especially when they talk of the amount of stuff their school friends get.

Even if I had the money I wouldn't buy a 10 year old an iPhone and an iPad!

Maybe I'm old fashioned! I'm thinking of late that I am.

I don't get the 10 year olds with i phones either

ds1 has a doro from his dl as his eyesight is poor and it has a special call button he can use in a panic bbut witth ds2 we got a royal weding phone in Virgin sale for a tnner with ten pounds credit LMAO- bargainous! Phone for a quid!