Hoo-bloody-ray! Child benefit cuts to be 'looked at for fairness'

[NoWayNoHow]

Basic logic and maths prevails at last!

Fingers crossed they actually find a fairer way to implement - I remember the uproar when it was first announced, simply because it was so ridiculously prejudiced against single salary families.

"because they WOULDN'T be losing the other bits of their benefits if they were working for £6.08/hr NMW."

Housing benefit is tapered at 65p for every £1 you earn and council tax at another 20p, meaning you only get to keep 15p of every £1 you earn when you start working. So, you do lose a lot of benefits when you start NMW. 15% of £6.08 is 91p/hour minus work costs like travel.

Erm - well in MY area, when I work FT for NMW, I still get ALL my rent paid. HB takes into account your childcare costs too, and because they are high here, and I have to find 55% of the cost of them (because my childcare is way over the £210/wk they WILL pay), I still get ALL my rent paid.

I lose NOTHING but my JSA when I take NMW work. I GAIN WTC, WTC childcare element AND my earnings when I take NMW work. I AM better off when I work. I just am unable to source SN childcare for a 13yo right now. AND employers don't want to employ me...I'm not a great prospect when I am disabled and have caring responsibilities...

BUT, in a couple of years, IF Workfare participants have left even ONE suitable NMW retail position available, I WILL go back to work. Albeit PT. As I cannot get my Neurologist to sign a fit note stating that I am capable of FT work. Mostly because I am not.

OK, lose pay from HB or lose pay from childcare bills. Either way the point is you keep less than a pound/hour of the minimum wage.

No - I KEEP ALL MY HB AND THE WTC childcare element. My wages are ON TOP.

minus the remaining childcare costs.

God what is all this about it being a lifestyle choice???

A choice to fall off a roof at work and suffer severe and permanent injury? A choice to have disabled children? A choice to have schizophrenia? A choice to have Multiple Sclerosis? A choice to be made redundant?

It is a choice to have lots of kids while on benefit, though.

I mean, to decide on more when you are in receipt of out of work benefits, of course people who decided they could afford kids can find their circumstances change after having them. Hope that is clearer.

What about those that are claiming TC's? Lots of people seem to assume that if you are on a low enough income to claim Tax Credits while you are working, that you shouldn't have any dc. Even though you are WORKING.

I totally agree with your argument re NMW Hunty. I think even people on out of work benefits who have always been on them have a right to reproduce. For ecological reasons I think everyone should stick to 2, replacement of themselves, but I understand that societal change has meant this is problematic. I have no problem with people on TCs having more children, although I haven't looked at the maths. I wish people were paid living wages so that they could make proper choices about these kind of things.

"God what is all this about it being a lifestyle choice???

A choice to fall off a roof at work and suffer severe and permanent injury? A choice to have disabled children? A choice to have schizophrenia? A choice to have Multiple Sclerosis? A choice to be made redundant?"

No-one is talking AT ALL about people who are disabled or ill.

But like it or not, there ARE people who choose to live on benefits, because, why would you go to work when everyone else will pay for you? I KNOW people who regard people who work as mugs, because they have to actually get up and go to work, and aren't actually much better off than they are.

Now the cap is coming in, they are looking into being registered disabled (I know, I know, but this is what they are doing), so as to escape the cap. And these are not disadvantaged people, they are people who have had every advantage in life.

lets hope the GPs get tough and wont let them do this. It is not acceptable.

There may be a few who make that choice Lily but IME there are many more who are fit for work and want to do so, and many with illnesses and disabilities who the DWP deems fit for work, who just aren't - their health care professionals agree that they aren't fit for work.

well the person I am thinking of has just been awarded higher rate mobility, so is now enjoying choosing a new car under the motability scheme.....

there is nothing the matter with them.

Are you sure of that Lily? They may have MS, or be able to walk but be in pain. As a CAB worker I had clients who knew they were doubted, as they went to town by bus and shopped - but were in real pain - and had been told in no uncertain terms by their doctor that it was a case of 'use it or lose it'

It's not like the Daily Mail says - you don't just fill in a form - you have to submit medical evidence and often have to have an assessment in person.

Unfortunately I know for an absolute fact what they have claimed for, what they are claiming to the authorities and what the real life situation is, they are in my family and are shameless.

If I had evidence I would dob them.

It is truly awful if they are indeed taking the piss.

But I do not think the answer is to deprive those who are not taking the piss.

you know what, I would sacrifice the 'justice for the piss takers' in terms of getting decent benefits for people who really do struggle with disability. I do think that it is unreasonable for people with no impairment to work, to be able to choose a very comfortable life on benefits, paid for by people who may be working incredibly hard and getting far less income than even the benefit cap, and yet they have to support those who regard them as mugs for not playing the system.

I bought up 2 kids on my own?..2 different dads?.
At that time you couldn't make private arrangements with absent fathers because at the time only CSA assessments were recognised?10 years ago, my daughter was 8 years old and my son was 2 years old.

One father paid, the other didn't?
At this point my daughter's father has never paid any money. Every year I get a letter from the CSA telling me what he now owes. At this point it is approx £13,000 outstanding..
They sent me a letter recently telling me that he would pay it off at £5.00 a week. She will be 60 years old when this debt is paid?he will be 83. Still haven't received any money from him and probably never will. Can't sue the CSA for their mishandling but can apply for compensation for them cocking it up so badly. Which they agree they have. `I did suggest that maybe they could pay me the £13,000 which I would use for his daughter's education and they could collect it from him at £5 per week!!!
My sons father, we were about to be married, scarpered with all our savings and put it into property. He has reduced his income over the years. He doesn't need to work because he has paid off his mortgage, nice for some!
I was shocked to find that the CSA didn't take Childcare into account when both parents work. So as the parent with care, i.e. a woman, that was my sole responsibility. Why? Could never understand how that was fair..to penalise the sole carer who works, but I sucked it up.
I did find decent childcare, who I paid for looking after the children while I slowly built up my business.
My daughter gained 3A's at A level just as they introduced the fees for university.
I have had to dedicate my life solely to work and my kids. I have had no social life for 10 years, forget a relationship. When??
I have, I feel, against all the odds that successive governments have thrown at me, risen to the challenge for my children.
Of course, it comes at a great cost personally. Basically I don't have a life at all, I go from work, to the kids, to work, to the kids.
I have finally broken through the ceiling.
Which means I now won't be getting Child Benefit!!
I'm not that worried about it financially. But it is the sheer unfairness, unjustness towards, mostly working women with children that, is to me unacceptable.

Luckily, on my journey I have managed to pick up an O1 Visa to work in the United States.
Don't want to jump ship.
But if this happens, I'm out?
I am sick of fighting on my own.
I think I should be regarded as an asset to this country, not someone who should be further penalised for being a successful working woman..It's not my fault I'm not married.
Plus, although my daughter, will be well educated by the time she graduates I shall be sure to tell her to get pregnant, sign on, get pregnant again.
Because, if she works, and has kids, if the relationship doesn't work out, whether it is her fault or not she will be paying tax which will go to people like David Cameron and Sam?..for their Child Benefit.
Let's get this joker out of the government ASAP

Gosh lots of views on this. Here are mine.........

I was made redundant a couple of years ago and decided to become stay at home mum to my 3 children. Have needed to change our spending habits but DH is a HRT so hardly on the breadline. I consider being able to be a home with my children a real luxury and now realise just how much i missed out on when I was working long hours. However, i do use my CB to pay for extra activities for the kids - swimming, cubs etc so will be disappointed to lose it.

Now it seems to make more financial sense for DH to work part time ( not that easy in practice) and me to go back to work PT - that way we would keep CB and have two tax allowances to use. So would be far better off.
Seems a shame that the government wants to attack families that have one parent working, while the other cares for the children ( didn't that used to be the traditional family many decades ago ?).

If CB is going to be taken away from me based on Dh's earnings - it only seems fair that I can transfer my free tax allowance and basic rate tax allowances to my DH. Our finances should either be treated as separate or combined ( not combined for CB and separate for others).

Also CB is tax free the amount of extra money Dh would have to earn in gross terms after HRT is of course more than we currently receive in CB.

One other thing - i have always though that child benefit should be paid in some form of voucher system ( like childcare vouchers or a ration book ?)) so that it can only be used for items needed for children - school shoes, childrens clothes, food etc. Then it wouldn't be abused by the minority. However, probably to costly to administer so bad idea !

Is there a MN petition to sign to support the full reinstatement of CB ? If yes, please could someome podt the link so i can sign it.

If no - does anyone know how to start one ?

Lily if your relative IS defrauding the system then you have a duty to report that.

But disability as a whole does not prevent someone from working, many people who are disabled manage to work, so it's not simply a case of "getting registered as disabled". The DWP are looking at everyone who claims and they are being strict in their criteria too - to the extent that people with cancer have been declared "fit for work".

But first there have to be jobs.........

IWishICouldThinkOfAFabName - great post, v clearly explained.

Esp

If CB is going to be taken away from me based on Dh's earnings - it only seems fair that I can transfer my free tax allowance and basic rate tax allowances to my DH. Our finances should either be treated as separate or combined ( not combined for CB and separate for others).

Iwishicouldthinkofafabname - I could have written your post (expect have 4 children) I totally agree. Well put

i think that is a good idea as well I wish. I think my M I L has said this for years. if one person is not working then why can't their tax allowance transfer to partner.