Irish Soldiers who fought with British in WWII to be recognised.

[stickyLFDTfingers]

One of those hidden stories, you can only wonder why it's taken so long (well, given the history of Irish/British relations, you can see why, but still feel so very sad).

BBC programme

Worth listening to. The treatment of the soldiers' children is particularly shocking.

was interesting, just been listening

Heard about this the other day , some one has written a book about it never knew that this happened - very sad

didn't know that either

unfortunately you can't listen to it on the link. Tell us more about the treatment of the soldiers' dc

ZzzenAgain hopefully it will go up soon; they said it should be on listen again so should be just a matter of time.

Re the children, it seems that many children were deemed abandoned if their father was away fighting, so taken into care. The "care" was (as of course for Irish children) abominable, involving at best cruel neglect, at worst physical and sexual abuse. In fact children of soldiers (according to this documentary) had "ss" written next to their names, to just ensure that they would be singled out for special treatment.

the treatment of the soldiers themselves in prison is shocking enough. I know I might be a bit "think of the children!" but it does strike me as particularly awful, given the children had absolutely no choice in the matter and were treated so badly.

well you hurt the dc and you hurt the parents where it hits them hardest

so the soldiers were sent to prison on their demobilisation I presume. Charged with what?

I haven't heard it and I have never read anything about this so too uninformed to discuss it much but you know it sounds more like Stalinist Russia than Ireland tbh, just going on the things you've said and the brief comment on that link

I was listening to that programme and was really shocked as it wasn't something I knew anything about.

Ireland was neutral during WWII, but many young Irish men chose to come and fight for the the British army. They were listed as having deserted and were treated abysmally on their return home. They were prevented from getting jobs, social support etc. etc.

Several people were saying that, at the time, the majority on Ireland were ambivalent about Britian winning the war and many hoped that Germany would win (all due to Ireland's difficult history with Britain).

So men who fought heroically were treated as outcasts and their families suffered too. Very, very sad.

Recognised by who? (link isn't working for me either) Is it the Irish Government?

summary of bbc prog, with some individual testimonies

letter to the Irish Examiner, rather different point of view

Some individual viewpoints.

This link to a BBC news item might work better.

Explain to a big thicko here:

This is about Irish Soldiers who left (deserted) the Irish Army to joining the British Army? Rather than Irish men who joined up? Or is it both?

the first, they deserted the Irish Army (which of course was neutral).

So it was a crime - though not punishable to this extent of course.

I was just wondering because there is a general attitude in Ireland about those that fought in the WW (all those that fought)

The part of the radio broadcast that made my blood run cold was about them getting 'specialist treatment' in the industrial school. Having read about and heard stories about 'normal' treatment of children in the industrial schools I can't even imagine what happened to the children of Irish men who had been British soldiers.

I didn't think it could get any worse

BTW by saying 'so it was a crime' I just meant that it was seem as something that was to be punished not that the starvation list or the treatment of the children is in anyway justified.

I think it was reasonable to punish the deserters.
However the response seems to have been disproportionate for a country that was not at war.

And to maintain the stance once it became clear exactly what had been happening under Nazism, well, it seems that a reconciliation is long overdue.

yes indeed, I know what you're getting at Moln. It wasn't entirely unprovoked, but taken to an awful and spiteful extreme. The letter to the Irish Examiner I linked to above is at the end of the "well, they deserted, and soldiers are punished for deserting" spectrum.

Just an excerpt from that letter which gives an opposing pov:

With a threat of British invasion looming, for Irish soldiers to usurp the authority of the State by deciding unilaterally to enlist in that belligerent British army while still a member of the Irish Defence Forces is unpardonable and unforgivable.

It begs the question, if the British had re-invaded Ireland would those Irish deserters who joined the British Army be part of that invading force or would they have deserted instead, again?

Plenty of opposing POVs here:

www.politics.ie/forum/history/161290-wwii-heros-overlooked-irish-government.html

Thanks Moln. I read a few pages and then just realised sometimes I'm pleased I don't live in Ireland any more!

I wonder what's going on here military chiefs baffled by bbc story about army deserters

Lots of people are surprised to hear that after Hitler killed himself in the Berlin Bunker, Ireland's President De Valera put on his top hat and went by carriage to the German Embassy to present his condolences.