Sunday Times article about working women by India Knight.........

[ssd]

Did you read it and if you did what did you think?

FWIW I agree with her, will probably be stoned now.

Lovecloud, "part time mums"? How does that work then? Do you stop being a mum when you go to work?

working 2-3 days a week and actually feeding and looking after your children before, after and on the days you are off.

not like some mums who pack them off before breakfast and just put them to bed (if they are home in time) five days a week.

How about working four days a week?

sorry if i've missed somethign and she does seem v sanctimonious but i didn't read her as having a go at mothers (perhaps i'm just blind to it) but rather at govt that is flouting all the current research and going forward with a social policy (get mothers out to work/institutionalised care over childminders etc as it is cheaper) that i do think will have disastrous effects in the longterm.

Sophable, this bit:

While it is easy ? and apropos ? to blame a succession of governments for creating this new generation of latchkey children (except that at least the original latchkey generation were in their own cosy homes, not in spirit-sapping school-type institutions), it is also imperative that working mothers ask themselves the kind of tough questions they have become so good at avoiding.

The first thing to address is the fact that you can only have it all if, bluntly put, you can afford staff. Having it all is impossible if you are poor, or even averagely hard-up. Since most people are not drowning in money, most people need to let go of the notion that it is possible to have a career (rather than just a job) and small children at the same time.

Two, we need to reacquaint ourselves with the notion of sacrifice, rather than getting cross at the notion and mumbling about patriarchy and the horrid unfairness of it all. The horrid unfairness is not going to go away, and neither is the fact that men don?t get pregnant or feel umbilically attached to their children long after they?ve emerged from the womb.

fine line

depends, how many hours are you away a day, do you just put them to bed 4 times a week or do you get to eat breakfast and dinner together???

i personally would find 4 whole days too much to be away from dd.

Ah, pressed post too quickly:

Women therefore need to feel pleased and proud of themselves for choosing, if that is what they want, to stay at home looking after their babies. Unfortunately, many of them do indeed feel pleased and proud, only for other women to come along and make them feel like pathetic, boring, invisible throwbacks. This has got to stop if anyone is to move forward.
Thirdly, anyone contemplating having children should bear in mind that, in view of all of this, the whole business is getting harder, not easier, and that unless you have a plan, or childcare arrangements that you are happy with (such as helpful grannies or siblings), you are going to end up miserable and your children are, too. Throwing away your contraception and keeping your fingers crossed, hoping for the best, has never looked more delusional.

Hardly supportive of women, is she?

just wondered how old everyone on here is?

Oh, but to live in India Knight's world! Just for a day, even. As the song goes, 'Wouldn't that be lovely?'

Lovecloud, the word "personally" in your post sums it up, really - that's your decision.

i don't see that as having a go hunker....i don't agree with all of it but isn't she just saying look, the 'having it all' notion is a pile of pants (we all know that don't we) and children take sacrifice (that is true too isn't it, and fwiw i agree that as a generation we're not v good at any talk of duty or sacrifice....)??

Why is age important?

mine and many others...

are you telling me its ok?

age thing:

just wondered if older mums used the full time childcare more so than younger mums.

when i have been on other threads it looked like most mums were older 30+

think i might have to start a new thread to find out.

Telling you what's OK? Staying at home or working four days a week?

"Throwing away your contraception and keeping your fingers crossed, hoping for the best, has never looked more delusional. Apparently balsamic vinegar is now deeply unfashionable.".

Take note. V. v. important. Vinegar does not work as contraception. Or not very well, anyhow.

hunker...she's saying have a plan....and she is totally right!!!!

she is also right that whatever happens in terms of equality (and i do think that much much more emphasis should be placed on fathers being real parents...MUCH), we give birth and breastfeed them....society and govt policy should support us in doing this, flexible working should become the norm, women should be enabled to care for young babies, and they and their partners should plan carefully for childcare so that they can return to work if they wish to....

children in childcare 5 days 10 hours a day

i am 26 but was 23 when fell pregnant with dd, pregnant now again

Blimey, 30's old now is it?! I'll get my coat

I think it could be that younger mums often haven't built a career, perhaps?

Sophable, I read the para about choice and "making" SAHMs who were happy with their decision feel bad and wondered, that's all. Just seemed odd and not really to do with government policy.

oooo get you...i'm a malt chippy vinegar girl myself...i douse dh with it