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"I am not sad that I will die today, but angry...

10 replies

MayaAngelCool · 08/12/2011 01:30

...that I can't die at home."

Very moving letter in today's paper.

OP posts:
dancingmustard · 08/12/2011 03:26

Sad sad and it must be difficult for her but...
Euthanasia could be a tool used to make it cheaper to treat get rid of a dying patient who doesn't want to die.
For that reason I just can't agree with it.
But I wish the lady luck on her next journey.

scaryteacher · 08/12/2011 08:52

I can see both sides of the euthanaisa argument, but on balance I am against it. I do not think that the legislation necessary can ever be tightly written enough to stop the potential loopholes.

I also think that by using the Liverpool pathway when people are dying, we are introducing euthanasia by the backdoor.

edam · 08/12/2011 13:46

Society has no right to deliberately inflict unbearable suffering on people becuase 'we' own their bodies. Self-determination is a fundamental human right - the right to decide what happens to your own body underpins all rights. Concern for other vulnerable people can't be used as an excuse to stop an individual making a free, unambiguous choice to end their own life.

My issue with the Liverpool pathway is that it is sometimes not discussed with the patient and/or their family. That is a 'must', not an optional aspect at the doctors' discretion.

MayaAngelCool · 08/12/2011 20:12

What's the Liverpool pathway?

Scaryteacher, I'm interested in what do you think would inhibit legislation from preventing abuse?

OP posts:
Sirzy · 08/12/2011 20:16

I agree Edam. As long as it can be proven that it is the wishes of the individual and 2 (or more) separate medics agree that their is no chance of recovery then I see no reason for Euthanasia not to be an option as long as it is in a well monitored way.

If an animal is suffering we can make the selfless decision to help stop that pain, we as humans should have that same option to not have to suffer unnecessarily.

greensnail · 08/12/2011 20:25

How is the LCP euthanasia by the back door. It just sets out what care someone should receive at the end of their life. It doesn't hasten death in any way.

DartsAgain · 09/12/2011 10:15

The LCP can be euthanasia by the back door, if it's arbitrarily imposed by the medical staff and not discussed with the patient/patient's family. There have been reported instances of these.

Meanwhile, when mum was seriously ill I found a DNR notice on her notes, which was not signed, and had not been discussed with mum or us, her family. I took it off, ripped it up and informed the staff that any further DNR notes would also be treated this way. Mum was not happy, as she would not have agreed to a DNR note at all. Mum is not the only example of this happening.

I feel at present we can't ensure that safeguards against people choosing euthanasia under duress are made strong enough while we have these sort of incidences undermining patients who don't want to die. The current appalling treatment of elderly people in hospitals is evidence enough.

People should have free will to make the decision to end their lives, and should not feel under any compulsion from medical staff, relatives or anyone with a vested interest.

BartletForAmerica · 12/12/2011 22:40

As a doctor, I will not give patients treatment that is inappropriate. That includes futile interventions like attempting resuscitation in someone who will not survive if they get to that point.

I have attended hundreds of in-hospital arrests and have seen 2 people get well enough to go home. Most people who arrest in hospital are arresting because they are dying because they are very unwell.

Attempted resus is an undignified event. It is not like Holby City and nowhere near as successful! Instead I have to strip off their clothes, get someone to try to get venous access to give medications, someone else to try to put a tube down their throat, someone else to do chest compressions. It is not nice and so often inappropriate, when that person should be allowed to die in peace, comfortably with their family near them.

I will not ask for permission to do a DNR form, but I think it is something that needs to be carefully and sensitively discussed with the patient and/or their family (as appropriate). I will explain that the patient is very seriously unwell, that we are doing what we can, but, despite best efforts, they might not get better. If that happens, we will do all we can to ensure they are kept comfortable and pain-free and that the end is peaceful. I'm sorry that it sounds like that didn't happen for DartsAgain's mother.

As for euthanasia, I am completely against it, but I believe that part of my job is ensuring people have a good death, so I will do all I can to ensure that they are given all the pain relief/anti-sickness drugs etc that they need to ensure that their death is as comfortable as possible.

The Liverpool Care Pathway is a way of ensuring that the nurses have all the tools available to do that once it has been signed by a doctor. Again, I am not going to ask a relative's permission to use it, but those relatives need to know just how grave the situation is with their relative so that they can be prepared for what will happen next.

frumpet · 14/12/2011 22:16

The liverpool care pathway is fantastic , it means that nurses dont have to spend hours on a weekend or on night shifts chasing badly overstretched doctors , for drugs that minimise pain , reduce secretions and relieve agitation . It does not prevent us from giving care to the dying , it helps us give them the best death possible . Sometimes people rally and get better and are taken off the pathway , its the same with DNR .

frumpet · 14/12/2011 22:26

However i have been in situations where doctors havent explained properly or fully to a family just how sick their relative is , in other words that they are dying.
Agree with bartlett re the DNR , i have been nursing for a good while now and have attended many resus situations , it is truely sickening listening to the sound of some poor frail persons ribs crack as someone performs chest compressions , knowing in reality that nothing we do is going to make the slighest bit of difference. And remember these people are not sedated during a resus , so god only knows how traumatic it must be for the poor person being stabbed with needles , going through defibrillation , chest compressions etc in their final moments . Resus only tends to work in situations where there is something that is medically reversible .

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