'Honour' crimes in the UK

[HedleyLamarr]

This mornings lead news on BBC Breakfast is about so called 'honour' crimes. Apparently there were 2800 identified by police forces who bothered to reply to an FOI request. I'm struggling to understand why this has not been given more publicity until now.

Indeed tralala

I know you weren't saying it excused murder Bossybritches, but some people obviously think it does, otherwise it wouldn't still be going on.

I think the news article comes from some reseqrch by the End Violence Against Women coalition.

Report into harmful practices for the Greater London Authority.

This reports talks about "harmful practices":

The United Nations has defined harmful traditional practices as: "forms of violence that have been committed against women in certain communities and societies for so long that they are considered part of accepted cultural practice. These violations include female genital mutilation or cutting (FGM), dowry murder, so-called ?honour killings,? and early marriage. They lead to death, disability, physical and psychological harm for millions of women annually" (UNFEM 2007).

Thing is pixel the perpetrators don't think of it as murder, because in their minds they aren't wrong, it's defending the family honour therefore it's excusable.

Until that mindset is changed, which might take generations, we're going to have a struggle. We have to try of course, not saying otherwise but it's might be a slow process.

The UN definition is succinct but it overlooks the young male victims too, those who are forced to carry out punishments & murders by their elders & how they are punished themselves if they refuse.

not in uk, but just been on news a woman who was raped in jail, and now wants to marry her attacker to restore family honour. W T F !!!

No I bet SHE doesn't want to marry him, but he wants her & her family know she is damaged goods (in their eyes) therefore no-one else would want her & I bet they think he is a "good catch" in the circumstances.

Sadly I doubt she has a say in the matter.

@maypole1

seeing as their british were would you deport them to

That's why I said "where possible". But in every case, charge entire families under joint enterprise. You do want to put a stop to this, don't you?

sadly not only in the UK.
in germany last night a 13 year old girl was shot by her father.

in another case in germany, a girl has disapeared and the police fear she has been killed. her 5 brothers are in prison and being investigated but not talking so far.

sorry link in german language

See in that case mousy as Fantastic says they should be charged with joint suspected murder charges & jailed collectively if one of them won't talk/confess.

If the police have strong suspicions the family should be detained until they can prove the girl/woman concerned is safe.

Of course if she's disappeared herself totally in fear of her life,as also happens, they'd stay locked up. Shame.

FantasticVoyage so let me gets this straight you would deport whole families because of a rouge cousin and mother.

How far would you go grate aunties, brothers in laws

A lot of times with in families you think you know whats going on but you have no idea

When i was 6 my uncles son robbed a post office he went to jail I was told he moved to canada I only found this out last year until last Christmas I thought my relative and had been Canada for the last 15 years

A whole section of my family had colluded in this lie so just to point out just because your in a family dose not mean you know what happening

off note - the german newspaper didn't call the crime 'honour killing' but 'cold blooded murder.

mousy glad to see the Germans have got it right then with the terminology.

maypole1 Deportation for those who are not, or have recently applied to become British nationals yes. It would be cheaper to deport the immediate family than lock them up. The murderer and anyone else in his immediate family who colluded or won't say who the murderer is. If they are British born then jail.

Auntie & BIL's could stay if not implicated, each case taken on its merits. If it splits up the family then that's the perpetrators fault.

The girl was in jail for having sex outside marriage (she was only a teenager) and had her rapist's baby whilst behind bars. It wasn't her idea to marry him, it was suggested by the judge as a way to escape her 12 year sentence. Unbelievable.

Sorry forgot link

Oh dear god poor girl.

The Eu have blocked a film about her case to protect her but it sounds like she was hoping it would help get her out so now she will marry her rapist to escape........

Wow Mousy, at least the Germans have it right. It is cold-blooded murder. Perhaps we should try that here.

My thoughts exactly Headley by somehow glamourising or justifying these killings by giving them the "honour-killing" label it enables the murderers to exonerate themselves from the crime.

A more accurate label would be a start. I can't think of anything apt that would fit into a newspaper headline though, that reflects the horror of a family organising the murder of their child out of a terrible misconception of 'honour'. Something that makes it clear that they are the ones bringing shame on their family and culture, and bringing disrepute on their religion.

Spot on Grimma, maybe we need someone from that sort of community to speak out against the murderers to start reflects the disgust we ( & most of their own) feel.

Look at Tariq Jahan. His son was murdered in the riots, and yet 3 days later he managed to speak out appealing for calm, and begged people not to react and take to the streets. He was heard by his own and many others and was so impressive in his dignified yet impassioned speech. It moved me to tears that even in the depths of his grief he could see the bigger picture and realise how important his words were. Not the same situation but very brave.

We need like minded brave men and women to speak out and destroy the myth that these killings are honourable and we need the police and counsellors who help support these families to be trained to recognise at risk young women.

"Honour kilings and forced marriages are not from Islam. It is a Punjabi cultural concept which occurs in Muslim and Sikh communities originated in Punjabi."

What a strange statement. Honour killings happen in many parts of the Middle East, places where no Punjabi has ever set foot, and where nobody knows what "Punjabi" even means.

Indeed they do Cote D & they do in some parts of Turkey I believe as well.

TBH I don't think it is relevant that we pigeon-hole this crime & attach it to one particular culture or religion.

It appears to be a particularly nasty form of the extreme interpretation of the concept of family and not marrying or having relationships outside your culture,often perpetuated by very hardline religious extremists, wether Christian,Muslim, Sikh or any other.

Of course the Koran doesn't condone killings any more than the Bible does but it's the INTERPRETATION of these texts by violent individuals that lead to violent traditions.

Murder is murder and that's what it is.
If the family of a murder victim are complicit either through acts or silence they should be charged as such.
Education and more education is needed to begin to dent this anomaly and stop this practice.
But we have to start that right here at home because we have no effect on foreign policies or cultures.

Oh exactly demeter start in our own back yard.

Hopefully if we can improve contacts within communties that are known to have these traditions, then the families will gradually realise that murder for whatever reason is not acceptable in the UK.

As you say education education.....it isn't going to happen overnight sadly.

Education . Not sure how that's going to work. What do they need to learn? That murder is wrong? That it's illegal in this country? I'm sure they know these things already yet choose to ignore them because it means the men keeping the power over women, something it seems they are not prepared to give up easily.

I think by education I mean starting with them when they are young, encouraging them to challenge the mindset of misogeny that is inbred in the men from an early age. And educating the women,that there is help for them to stand up for themselves,and so they are not isolated by being imprisoned in their own homes,not being able to speak english.

As I said before it is a long term goal. In the meantime we have to make it clear that it is not accepted in this country by not pussy-footing around when murders are commited.