Such a sad story in the news - baby mistakenly terminated.

[Christmascack]

www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/royal-womens-hospital-investigates-accidental-termination-of-wrong-twin-in-surgery-error/story-e6frg6nf-1226204303788

Oh for gods sake

On that thread me and another disabled poster said that if tests were available for our conditions and we found out that our babies had the conditions then we would have to think very hard about continuing the pregnancy

You said that anyone who is not prepared to have a disabled child shouldn't have children.

We were both very upset.

No you didn't directly say that I should have a termination but from what you said I gathered that you didn't think I should be having a baby.

It's not a "vendetta" given that this is the first time since it happened I have been in a situation where I've realised it was the same poster and I got very UPSET.

And I am happy to stop talking about it now and discuss the points of the thread.

I am completely confused now!

poor wannabe.

sardine read wannabe's post again thoroughly - no where in it that I can see has she inferred you should've had an abortion

Which post?

This was a very interesting debate until it got hijacked. 3 years is a very long time and peoples opinions can change wildly in that time. Just because Wannabe may or may not have said something you disagree with Sardine, it doesn't meen the same still applys now (and from what wannabe has said all through this thread I tend to think it would be unlikey that she said you should have had an abortion) the posts Wannabe has made on THIS thread have been well thought out and interesting contributions to the debate. raking things up from 3 years ago is in no way helpful to THIS thread.

I really am happy not to talk about this any more if other people stop as well

x-posts

So I think that on balance Blu's idea is the right way around this.

And can people please stop saying things like "disagree" or "slight" as comments like that are unlikely to have the desired effect of me shutting the fuck up.

Thank you.

Yes your majesty!

Go and get that cuppa sardine you are taking everything the wrong way and seriously think you need to step away for a bit.

Yes I agree with Blu.

I strongly object to the current as it values some lives less than others. But the only workable way around that is to allow termination for any reason up to birth.

I also believe that there needs to be better counselling on offer for parents in these positions. I also believe that doctors are not the best people to counsel parents on the impact of having a child with learning disabilities (irrelevant in this case), or other 'healthy' disabilities (such as visual or hearing impairments, dwarfism etc etc - the medical model really does these groups a disservice)

God, I sort of presumed there would automatically be counselling saintly - it definitely needs to be offered.

I think that people with disabilities are simply not "visible" enough in society. It's the old thing of people being scared of the unfamiliar. I notice that so few people look "different" compared to when I was a girl - then people with downs syndrome especially were just around the place and people were far less physically perfect generally - people had dodgy teeth and gammy legs and squints and big benign growths on their foreheads and (although many of these things aren't disabilities!) I think there was just more acceptance of people being different. Now it seems that all "easy" physcial imperfections are removed, there are far less people around with certain disabilities due to abortion, and the disabled people who are around aren't so visible in society.

Obviously this is talking about things you can see - rather than "invisible" disablities.

Anyway the point I am trying to make in a roundabout way is that I think people are maybe more scared to continue with pregnancies when they have been told there is a risk of disability because they don't know what it will mean, they don't know people with disabilities, that sort of thing.

There needs to be a greater understanding that life as a person with a disability isn't automatically a write-off.

I'm not sure how you achieve that though.

the problem is that the medical professionals rarely actually know about what it is like to live with a child with a disabilitiy - they approach everything from a medical persspective.

When I was pg with ds I was told I should see a genetic counsellor as there was a 50% chance of ds having a visual impairment. She said she should talk to me about what it would be like living with a visual impairment - given I have been blind since birth I think that I possibly know a bit about it.

'And can people please stop saying things like "disagree" or "slight" as comments like that are unlikely to have the desired effect of me shutting the fuck up.

Thank you.'

People say that because they weren't there on that thread from years ago and don't care enough to go looking for it.

But please, carry on making it all about you.

Is there any mechanism by which people who are told they are carrying a baby with risk of X condition are offered to learn more about that condition, maybe meet families or children with it? I know that I met other children who were going to have similar procedures to me a few times, to tell them about it and that it would be OK. I'm not sure if that is a good idea or not, just throwing it out there.

Not for conditions with a really dismal prognosis though. Or maybe? I don't know.

There needs to be a way for people to make real informed decisions when they get this news and are all at sea.

Valium - wanna know the 'counselling' we had a few days after finding out that DS1 was likely to die?

'Oh don't be so upset, you've still got a healthy baby, haven't you? Concentrate on that one and forget about the other.'

That, from a therapist in the postnatal department.

God that is truely disgusting deemented. Really sorry that you went though all you did and that is the sort of support you were offered

That's absolutely appalling deemented.

deemented

Deem words fail me

Dee - words fail.

I also believe that doctors are not the best people to counsel parents on the impact of having a child with learning disabilities (irrelevant in this case), or other 'healthy' disabilities (such as visual or hearing impairments, dwarfism etc etc - the medical model really does these groups a disservice)" standing ovation.

And - WTF to Wabnnabe needing to find out about living with visual impairment - words fail once again!!

Sonographer to me at 20 week scan "Well, your baby will never be a footballer or a dancer"
Me, in my mind "Oh, FFS,, I know dancers with no legs at all, if my baby wants to dance, my baby will dance!" ( I felt less strongly about the football)

Because I DO know dancers in professional theatre / dance companies who are paraplegic, have lost limbs, etc, and I also know people with DS earning a living as dance workshop leaders. So when we had amnio (leg business being a soft marker, etc) and talk of DS, my DP was in a real spin - as far as he knew people with DS did not live past the age of 12 or 13 and lived in a home. e.g info from a generation ago.

The lack of awareness and understanding is immense.

Nothing to do with the OP - but a reasonable evolution of the thread discussion, I think.