Mark Duggan, shot to death by police, triggering the riots, was not armed

[edam]

bloody hell A gun was recovered but it was 14 feet away on the other side of a fence. So the police were not facing an armed man.

Tomlinson

SQ: I think we do. The firearm was there, he was attempting to evade arrest, there were bystanders. Even if his movements were not erratic, WWYD?

And WWYwantthepolicetoD if you and your children were amongst they bystanders?

No I haven't ever broken the law. I have never had any points on my driving license, never speed, never parked where I shouldn't. I never didn't do my homework or talked back to a teacher. I never even had a detention throughout my school life. I haven't done any of these things because I don't want to get into trouble/be fined etc. I have the self restraint and the intelligence to see ahead at the likely outcome of such actions and make a decision on how I want to behave.

As a child in primary school I stole sweets from the corner shop and I threw mud at a neighbours windows. I was caught, punished and learnt that being punished was actually no fun and the stress of wondering when I was going to get caught was not worth the sweets or the "fun" of terrorising the neighbour.

I expect children to make bad decisions, but I don't expect adults to break the law and not know what the likely consequences will be. You mess with guns, you will get hurt. Doesn't take a genius to work that one out.

"As a child in primary school I stole sweets from the corner shop "

That is illegal

So you have broken the law.

Have you never picked up a penny from the ground and not handed it into the police?

scaevola in your wwyd, I would have shot him.

I don;t think the police should shoot people unless they have seen a firearm clearly and are sure it is imminently going to be fired.

Because time and again they are shooting people who they shouldn't.

Yeah well that's no surprise mageto, you seem to follow the clint eastwood school of policing.

Shoot now and ask questions later (and lie about the answers) is not what I want from my police force.

I was under the age of criminal responsibility. I did not realise the consequences of my actions (until I was punished) because of my age. After the event, I never did it again.

You cannot say that an adult who breaks the law does not know the consequences of their actions.

I can't believe that you think that everyone in the UK who has ever broken the law deserves to be shot!

You do realise that's 99% of the population, right? Most of your friends, family, work colleagues etc etc

I'm sure I can find one

Never cycled on the pavement?
Never stopped just for a sec on a double yellow on a sunday?
Never entered a box junction when the way out the other side was not clear?

AHA

Never paid cash to a self employed person?

Non of them either. It's really not difficult to not break the law you know.

And I never said anyone who breaks the law should be shot (although some people....) I said that anyone who breaks the law should not expect there to be no consequences and that being shot is a valid consequence of messing with guns.

'Never paid cash to a self employed person?'

Is it a crime to pay cash to your window cleaner?

I think it is quite clear that Magneto is a law-abiding citizen, that is beyond dispute. Trying to paint her as a jay walker will cut no ice.

magneto jean charles menezes wasn't messing with guns

You justified his shooting on the basis that his visa had expired

So I assume that if the police shoot any of the 99% of the population who have at one time or another committed a crime (no matter how petty) you will say well done to them.

Thusha Kamelesarwan, age 5, plus a 35 year old man
Agnes Sina-Inakoju
Azezur Khan
Karl Gbedemah
unnamed woman: Hackney Broadway Market
Wayne Stockdale
Unnamed woman, Jack's Bar, Richmond Street

Just some of the innocent bystanders shot, some of them fatally, in London recently.

They weren't shot by mark duggan though were they?

magneto you said this

"crazynanna that is mental! Did they not warn him before shooting? You know a "put down your weapon or we'll shoot" thing? "

It is statistically highly likely that the man had at some point broken the law in some way or another. So why the surprise? Presumably you have no problem with him being shot.

I may be mistaken,but I think the last PO to be found guilty of a death in custody was 42 years ago...David Oluywale...and the officer served a few months in prison.
Again,remembering these details from a while ago,I think 1000 people have died in custody with just that one conviction. (please someone correct me if wrong...it was a while ago reading dd1's college work)

Justice? You have to wonde,don't you?

magneto doesn't it bother you that in all of these deaths the police have lied about what happened?

I never said they were, and that point isn't relevant anyhow. If there were one mass-shooter, then policing would look very different.

Operation Trident is dealing with those who acquire illegally, and take them out on the street, with the very aim of stopping that sad list becoming longer.

crazynanna: there were 333 deaths in police custody in the decade up to 2008/09 (haven't found a more recent set of figures), and this figure shows falls, year on year.

The total number of deaths in all forms of custody (over the decade to end 2010) runs at about 550 every year (though this figure is also falling year on year). Over 90% of those deaths were among those detained under the Mental Health Act.

I do not know any country that has police force more respected for its professionalism and incorruptibility than that in the UK. Having traveled extensively throughout my life I think there is a very good reason for that. If I am wrong and others can provide an example I am happy to be corrected.

It does not mean that they are 100% infallible, do not ever make mistakes or do not have crooks in their ranks. Suggesting that unless they are 100% whiter than white they are crooks, corrupt or callously going around killing innocent people stupid or a deliberate policy to amplify mistrust.

There are plenty of cases of trial by media. And (maybe) rightly so, there is definitely a place for independent investigative journalism in a democratic society, but on this case I will reserve my judgement until proper investigations are concluded and their findings are presented for public scrutiny.

Riots were not "sparked" by the death of this person but by inaction of the police, which showed that criminals can attack people, break into the shops, loot, set fire and get away with it.