Babies 'should sleep in mother's bed until age three' (Telegraph)

[Teaandcakeplease]

Admittedly its the Torygraph but what do you ladies make of this? Interesting.

www.telegraph.co.uk/health/children_shealth/8854674/Babies-should-sleep-in-mothers-bed-until-age-three.html

I get irritated when people complain about the western world and not being natural and then they just cherry pick the bits they want from more primitive societies. If they followed it all MIL would be the all powerful figure, older sister would be carrying around the baby and boys would be off with the men when they got to a certain age.

There must be many a baby who gives a huge sigh of relief when they get put down in their own space!

It was a slow news day in the Telegraph newsroom this week. At other times this story wouldn't have even got a look in on a local rag.

As said before, it's horses for courses, isn't it. I didn't get as tired as some new mums did because I co-slept with DS from the off, same as Lenin. But DS was a quiet sleeper, didn't wriggle or snuffle/snore. I am also a quiet, still sleeper, so didn't impact on his sleeping either. The only wriggler/snorer is DH - and he was in the spare bed.

It wasn't all a bed of roses - I used to get a stiff arm from keeping it above his head - but he swapped sides in the middle of the night, often more than once, so my arms took it in turn to suffer/get respite. I never had DS on my chest, ever - but had him tucked in beside me. I sleep under sheet, blanket and duvet - the duvet was folded back and away from him so he was only under sheet and blanket (and sometimes not even the blanket but he was born midwinter, so mostly he was).

But this was MY choice and I appreciate it isn't and can't be for everyone.

The best parenting advice I ever read was by Tracey Hogg who wrote The Baby Whisperer books. She said, research and read lots of books, listen to your friends/ family and experienced mothers. THEN decide which bit(s) suit you and your family and do your own thing.

I've read the whole thread, and I have a question - for everyone, really. Those who love co-sleeping - do you know whether you were co-slept with as babies? And those who say they cannot sleep with a baby in the bed and even have difficulty sleeping with a partner - what were your sleeping arrangements when you were babies? I'd just be really intrigued to know whether more/less parental contact when a baby carries right through into adult life.

By the way, I also have a lot of respect for Leonie for remaining calm in the face of people misquoting and misinterpreting her.

I would agree desnatada.....adding 'then keep quiet about it' because everyone is different and it is only best for you.
I don't think that anyone's sleeping habits have anything to do with the arrangements as babies because the poor baby is too young to actually give an opinion on where they want to sleep.

I am a part time co-sleeper, she starts in her cot then comes in with us about 2am... works for us, not for everyone though. Gives us time to shag.... :)

We didn't plan to co-sleep, just sorta happened... Happy with our choices but happy it isn't for everyone, She isn;t the best sleeper so I am tired... but co-sleeping did help in the earlier days as I slept and fed at the same time.

I never slept in my parents bed and somehowem, here I am

With this studies- where the babies in cots in parents rooms, or cots alone? My DD would only sleep on a chest for the first week, I was too scared to fall asleep like that so husband and I took it in shifts, god that was tiring... If she had been able to sleep in her moses basket she would have done... She only started bed sharing at around 12 weeks, before that she was in a moses basket by our bed.

Anyway, soon there will be another article attacking some form of parenting and making another group of parents feel like crap. We all love our children equally and we all do our best to get them through so lets support each other, celebrate our differences and not attack each other.

DS, now 5, slept in his basket from day one, which suited me fine as I wake up if a mouse farts in the garden. DD, 5 months, screamed blue murder when not carried or held, would only sleep in bed with one of us. She mostly co sleeps with one of us, not because we want her to but because it's the only way anyone gets any sleep! Never wanted to co sleep, don't really like it but what to do? At some point I will go the CC route but not yet. My point is, sometimes you just have to go with what the Boss wants. Experts can lecture but it's usually best to do what suits you and your child.

Octavia - I am 99% sure I was in a bassinet and then a cot immediately, the cot in the bedroom next door to my parents' room. My mum attempted bf'ing but I made her bleed in the first 3 days, so she stopped and put me onto formula. I doubt very much that co-sleeping would have crossed her mind. I can't ask her, sadly, because she isn't alive any more - but I am pretty certain that is the case. I know for sure she didn't co-sleep with my younger siblings (nor breastfeed them). Co-sleeping definitely not a "thing" for our family, nor was bf'ing - my sis couldn't bear to even consider it for her DDs. Whereas I breastfed DS for 23m - I like to be different, clearly!

There's a lot to be said for looking at the evidence, and taking note of it when the evidence is strong. The evidence, for example, that kangaroo care can save the lives of premature babies is overwhelming, so doctors would be mad to ignore it. Similarly, the evidence that putting a baby to sleep on its front massively raises the risk of cot death is also so strong that a parent who said, "Well, I prefer my baby to sleep on its front and I don't care what the evidence says" would be a bit bonkers, wouldn't they? That's why I can't agree with desnatada's comment "THEN decide which bit(s) suit you and your family and do your own thing."

The evidence on the benefits and disadvantages of co-sleeping is rather more complicated - obviously it's dangerous if the parents have been drinking, or are smokers, or if you use duvets and pillows. It's much safer in warm countries where you have a hard bed and a thin sheet - the baby isn't going to get smothered. But research by Helen Ball into bed-sharing when the mother is breastfeeding shows that the baby and the mother tend to get into "synch", with each regulating the other's temperature. I think Bergman's research on stress is interesting, but with a sample of only 16 babies, you'd have to say it was hardly conclusive.

well said, hackmum

Excellent, now I can feel less guilty for having breastfed and bed-shared with my co-sleeping or no-sleeping DS for 2.5 years!

...But more guilty for putting DD to sleep in her cot on her own. Ah well. I've become so accustomed to parenting guilt, that I'd probably be lost without it anyway.

I co-slept with DS until he was 6 months (easier to bf during night) and I would say it probably made those early months more bearable sleep-wise BUT the first time we had a babysitter (just after he turned 6 months), she put him in his cot and he slept through and I discovered that actually (due to my horrendous snoring) he was much much happier with his own space (my temp goes up when I'm asleep so we got v hot during the night anyway) and away from my foghorn snoring blaring in his ears throughout the night!

I just think it's a very personal and individual choice based on circumstances which recommendations from on high can't account for. I liked co-sleeping - my DS didn't!

I co-slept for about 6 weeks, then had ds in a moses basket in my room for another month, which seemed to help both of us sleep. Then in desperation given that ds wouldn't sleep with me, I swaddled him and put his basket in the room next to mine. Instant improvement in sleep for both of us, as he wasn't waking me with noises and it wasn't difficult to pick him up, sit in my bed to feed him, and take him back to bed where he immediately fell asleep again.

Ideally with no.2 I'll learn to feed lying down which is a skill I never mastered with ds, which may lead to more co-sleeping. I've tried taking ds into my bed to sleep quite a few times as a toddler and he's never ended up sleeping - for him, his own space with his chosen hard lumpy toys is best.

Also wondering why it's 'mother's' bed not 'parental' bed or for that matter why a father's bed wouldn't be as good particularly if the child was no longer breastfeeding?

It's interesting that someone brought up 'Cochrane approved' (what does this even mean? It's not a term I've ever come across in quite a few years working in this field), since Nils is one of the authors of the Cochrane Review 'Early skin-to-skin contact for mothers and their healthy newborn infants (Review)'.

The research reported in the Telegraph is actually good science, and if you read the article itself you will see the authors stress the limitations of their research; researchers shouldn't be blamed for the media's poor reporting of their work - particularly with bed-sharing this happens almost every time some research comes out (anyone remember the hysteria over the Blair et al paper which came out in 2009 - 'Hazardous co-sleeping environments and risk factors amenable to change'? - horrendously misreported, both by the media and by bodies who should have been able to provide a scientifically objective summary of it. The authors even came to the media to try and remedy the misinformation which resulted from media reporting of that paper, but by then the damage was done).

I don't know where the 'to 3 years' thing comes from, that may be Nils' opinion (and incidentally researchers are allowed to have opinions about this stuff just as much as anyone else, and very often have some good basis for their opinion rather than just 'gut feeling' or socio-cultural expectations), but an increasing body of research is pointing the same way as this piece of research - mother-infant separation causes measurable stress and long-term consequences for infants. Not liking that that is what scientific research indicates doesn't, unfortunately, make it not so, and researchers (and to be fair the media) have a responsibility to make this information available to the people it affects - parents in this case.

notcitrus - I think it is the case that many fathers are not as attuned to the baby as the mothers are. Not in all cases, obviously - but there may be higher risk of the father rolling onto the baby than the mother (all other risk factors being excluded). I'm sure there was a recent case of this happening but can't find a news link to it

My DD still co-sleeps, its what works for each family. I'm dreading next week

when yet another study will prove that co-sleeping causes 'Psychopathic'

personalities.[hhmm]

"obviously it's dangerous if the parents have been drinking, or are smokers, or if you use duvets and pillows."

We use duvets and pillows. Don't most people? I hate being cold at night and can't sleep if I am cold.

Bunbaker - it's using them inappropriately that causes the risk - duvets should be kept well away from a co-sleeping baby because of the risk of overheating as well as smothering, and the pillows because of smothering. You can use them but you need to ensure the baby isn't affected by them.

There's no evidence that duvets are more of a problem than any other type of bedding in a co-sleeping context. If you're co-sleeping, especially if you are a breastfeeder, you will likely sleep in such a way that you are monitoring your babies temperature throughout the night, and if you or the baby think he/she is too warm, one or other of you will take action to remedy that situation.

You're right that most people in this country use duvets and pillows. Given that nearly three-quarters of all people who breastfeed to a month or more sleep with their babies at some point, you can tell something about the risk from the fact that there isn't an epidemic of overheating/smothering deaths.

If you need to take conscious action because you're worried, think about a) HOW do you sleep? Curled up round your baby - protecting him from the bedding/ bed partner? Do you put your baby's head or body on the pillow and then pull the duvet up over his face? This would be BAD ;-) Just take sensible steps to make sure you baby isn't likely to disappear under the duvet or pillows, and that you're following the other guidelines (no smoking, alcohol or drugs) and your baby should be at no more risk in your bed than in a cot, AND you will find breastfeeding and caring for your baby much easier into the bargian (and your baby will be happier too).

cheesebaby (and I'm not being contentious, honestly) - there might not be any evidence that duvets are more of a problem, but it's common sense, surely? A sheet and blanket won't smother a baby; duvets can. And tiny babies can't do a thing about overheating - they're not strong enough to kick the covers off and their bodies don't do temperature regulation properly to start with - so it really is down to the mother/parent to make sure they're safe.
But isn't it in the "safe co-sleeping guidelines" to ensure that duvets and pillows are kept away from babies? I thought it was but could be misremembering.