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Original poster

Joanna Yeates case - why is this happening at all?

739 replies

Ponders · 11/10/2011 17:20

It seems clear that he did kill her, & I don't see how he can claim it was unintentional, so why do her poor parents have to be put through such harrowing evidence?

OP posts:
Pan · 23/10/2011 12:27

yes shock is a weridy thing. Last summer I had a cycling accident, broke two fingers,(dangling around off my hand) but then drove a friend to hospital who had a gashed knee. I thought his knee was more serious.Indeed Shock. And who drives off to Asda just after killing someone? Someone shocked at themselves for murdering someone they don't even know.

wannaBe · 23/10/2011 12:37

can't see anywhere about the gf having shoppped him to the police.

There was some speculation at the time of the arrest that the couple had split up in September, but that wouldn't tie in with him having picked her up on the night in question.. so possibly just the neighbours getting in on the story at the time (the same neighbours probably that were quick to talk about the landlord. Hmm)

Original poster
Ponders · 23/10/2011 12:58

VT was the one who pointed the finger at the landlord in the first place Hmm

OP posts:
PercyFilth · 23/10/2011 13:05

And was rewarded by having his own DNA taken. I crapped myself laughing when I read that, but probably not as much as he did.

PercyFilth · 23/10/2011 13:08

Crapped not laughed, that is, obviously. I would have loved to have seen his face then.

thunderboltsandlightning · 23/10/2011 13:26

Compression on the neck is indeed a euphemism. He was strangling her. He literally strangled the life out of her.

Also this idea that there is some sort of technicality at work here is also ridiculous. It's like claiming that someone died of bleeding to death so the fact that they were shot is a side issue.

She died because she was strangled. If he hadn't strangled her she would still be alive.

There is something macabre in helping a killer make his excuses.

thunderboltsandlightning · 23/10/2011 13:30

Are there people here who would strangle someone if they wanted to stop them making a noise?

PercyFilth · 23/10/2011 13:32

Did you even read what I wrote?

PercyFilth · 23/10/2011 13:34

Show me where I have made excuses for this piece of shit that killed Joanna.

thunderboltsandlightning · 23/10/2011 13:38

I was trying to avoid your posts actually Percy after the "I crapped myself laughing". This isn't a spectacle or entertainment, a woman was killed, and now the killer is trying to get away with it.

Someone who puts their hands around someone's neck and strangles them, isn't trying to shut them up, he's trying to kill them.

scarevola · 23/10/2011 13:41

Compression of the neck is a good term here - she died of vagal inhibition not suffocation. It was his hands round her throat that did this, but it isn't strangling in its usual sense.

The reason there has not been any discussion of the circumstance of the dumping of the body is because his testimony on this has not yet been presented.

PercyFilth · 23/10/2011 13:45

Yes, and if you pay attention to what people are actually saying, most of us are worried that he might succeed in getting away with m/s. I want him to go down for murder, but it is not a foregone conclusion. We have to consider how the jury may see things. That is why these legal definitions are important. Already the defence QC has attempted to mislead them by using the word "premeditation". Murder does not have to be premeditated. I only hope the judge makes that crystal clear to the jury when he sums up.

PercyFilth · 23/10/2011 13:45

^ that was to thunderboltsandlightning

wannaBe · 23/10/2011 13:47

saying that it wasn't strangulation that killed her is not making excuses - it is a fact.

We know that he killed her. We know that he put his hand (singular) around her throat (as confirmed by a pathologist.

But the result of strangulation is suffocation. Joanna did not die of suffocation and the cause of death is not strangulation.

scarevola Tabak gave evidence on Thursday and commented then on the dumping of the body. The defense did say though that the jury were not there to deliver a verdict on that - that the decision they had to make was whether the actual killing was intentional.

scarevola · 23/10/2011 13:50

Thanks wannaBe - I've not seen accounts of all the evidence.

thunderboltsandlightning · 23/10/2011 15:20

Where is this stuff coming from. Strangulation doesn't necessarily lead to suffiocation. The constriction of the blood vessels in the neck is by far the most dangerous thing about it.

I'd still like to know if there's anybody here who doesn't realise that strangulation leads to death.

thunderboltsandlightning · 23/10/2011 15:30

Maybe this will help clear things up a bit. The majority of victims who are killed by strangulation are women who are strangled to death by men:

I think people here have fallen for the myth that strangulation only causes suffocation, when like I said the most dangerous thing about it (or rather the part that will kill very quickly indeed is the constriction of blood vessels and arteries):

"To better appreciate the dangers associated with strangulation, it is essential to understand some rudimentary human physiology. Strangulation is a type of asphyxiation ?characterized by a closure of blood vessels and/or air passages of the neck as a result of external pressure.? 5 Ligature strangulation includes the use of any type of cord-like object, such as an electrical cord or purse strap. Manual strangulation may be done with hands, forearms (i.e. the ?sleeper hold?), or even kneeling or standing on the victim?s neck or throat.
Research indicates that manual strangulation is the most common form of strangulation used in domestic violence cases. 6 The neck contains bones and cartilage that include the larynx, trachea, and the hyoid bone. 7 Carotid arteries in the sides of the neck are the major vessels in which oxygenated blood travels from the heart and lungs to the brain. 8 Blocking of the carotid artery with external pressure deprives the brain of oxygen. Jugular veins are the major vessels in the neck that transport deoxygenated blood from the brain back to the heart. 9 Blocking of the jugular vein prevents deoxygenated blood from exiting the brain. 10 Closing off the airways prevents a person from breathing. Any one, or a combination, of these events can result in unconsciousness. Notably:
Only eleven pounds or more of pressure applied to both a person's carotid arteries for merely ten seconds can cause unconsciousness. 11
To completely close off the trachea, approximately 33 pounds of pressure is required. 12
If strangulation persists, brain death will occur in 4-5 minutes. 13
In addition to the horror of a strangulation attack, these crimes are also extremely physically painful for victims. Researchers report that the general clinical sequence of a victim who is being strangled is: severe pain, followed by unconsciousness, followed by brain death. 14"

www.empirejustice.org/issue-areas/domestic-violence/case-laws-statues/criminal/strangulation-and-domestic.html

JanePumpkin · 23/10/2011 16:23

'Only eleven pounds or more of pressure applied to both a person's carotid arteries for merely ten seconds can cause unconsciousness. '

What is bothering me now is why he assumed she was dead, did he check, why didn't he try and make her breathe again if he wasn't expecting her to die, went in the other falt, came back expecting her maybe to wake up...

did he know he had killed her or think she had just passed out? In which case why not try and help her?

No I think if this is what happened, he meant her to be killed, otherwise he would have tried to help when she collapsed. Not just left her there and buggered off.

He was living in his little fantasy world, it wasn't real to him, it was a script or something he was playing out. She was just collateral.

imo

JanePumpkin · 23/10/2011 16:24

other flat, sorry

I mean it isn't the behaviour of someone who has made a dreadful mistake is it

thunderboltsandlightning · 23/10/2011 17:31

Strangling someone can never be a mistake.

JanePumpkin · 23/10/2011 17:36

No, but I mean, if he had been trying to keep her quiet, she collapsed, he should then have realised he'd hurt her, tried to give her CPR, made sure she was at least breathing...it doesn't sound like he even considered it. He says he went back to his flat, then came back to hers hoping she might have revived somehow Hmm

I think if you hadn't meant to kill someone you would at least be a bit surprised they had passed out, and tried to bring them round.

You don't just feck off and leave them lying there.

pickledsiblings · 23/10/2011 17:46

he did put her on her bed iirc

Pan · 23/10/2011 17:53

I think it still comes back to his choices when she screamed, and why she screamed. To stop her screaming he leaves the flat tout suite. But by that time it's too late in his head. He's tried to sexually assault her, and failed.

Betelguese · 23/10/2011 18:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

wannaBe · 23/10/2011 18:59

"I'd still like to know if there's anybody here who doesn't realise that strangulation leads to death."

\link{http://www.mymultiplesclerosis.co.uk/stranger-than-fiction/asphyxiophilia.html\there are clearly people who don't}

Apparently thousands of people die each year because of this. Shock Sad

What if he was one of these? What if, as people are suggesting, there was indeed a sexual motive here - namely the high reached from strangling someone until the point of near loss of consciousness. Except it went wrong.

The action is no less despicable, given it was non-consenting, but the argument could be made that death was unintentional.

I am by no means saying that was what happened here. But clearly there are people who do not realize that strangulation causes death so quickly - and perhaps that is the key - not that it ultimately causes death, but that it can happen in a split second - I would imagine that many people in fact don't know that.