Prescott back stabs Blair.

[RudolphsAuntMabel]

Hurrah for John Prescott!! (never thought I'd say that!).

Has told the telegraph that he will fight Tory Blair on the school reforms - the ones that will allow state schools to be selective - 2 tier class system.

I for one agree with John. I was lucky enough to go to a great state High School where the girls in my form were from all different backgrounds and I firmly believe that's a good thing. If you give state schools the option to be selective with the pupils they take and more control over their own finances in the way Tony wants a lot are going to take children from more prosperous back grounds so kids like I was will miss out on a fantastic education just because their parents aren't wealthy.

I love John Prescott!!

Surely the answer is to improve the high schools rather than to deny the more academically able pupils their chance to be taught at their level? Cal I'm only 20 miles from you and our secondary high schools are fine. They were bad- the school ds1 went to was a failing school 20 years ago but now it has a waiting list thanks to a new Head, new regimes and an intolerance of the bad behaviour they'd got away with before. I worked at another high school here and it was hell. Since I left they've brought in a new head and sorted it out.

Primary school admission here is a lottery, especially if like us you don't live in the catchment of any school, and can't afford a house in the right area. With only comprehensives on offer it would be the same story for secondary.

I don't see anything in this bill that will do it either, sadly.

It is just such arse to suggest that you can only be 'clever' (for want of a better word) as an academic.

I'd much rather my kids be a first rate plumber than a third rate teacher. In fact a third rathe plumber probably earns more than a first rate teacher

I have considered moving in your direction, Tallulah. Might have to in 5 years time, because apart from one very good comp in this area, if DS doesn't pass the 11+, the choice is between about 4 sink schools or home edding.

When everyone round here discusses education, they always talk in terms of grammar, but as only 20% get in, it always amazes me that none of the people I talk to have even considered the possibility that their child won't pass the 11+. Given an 80% chance, it's surprising how people always assume it won't happen to their child.

Also, not sure why we keep pretending that kids don't realise that other kids are brighter/less bright than them.
Even at primary school they know they are being grouped/streamed based on their ability.
Why is it embarrassing to admit that some kids are better suited to a more vocational programme?

Well the plumber we've just paid 3K to put in a new boiler isn't wishing he spent 3 years at uni!

Homemama, we stream, and the kids know which stream is which. We don't give grades or marks out of 10 in out marking scheme....we tell them what they have done well and how to improve next time. In spite of this I would estimate that most, if not all, of the kids I teach can 'place' themselves within 10% of class performance. Kids are astonishingly good as sussing out who is best at doing things.

I teach 'botton set' y7 and they already know that they are bottom set.

And mixed ability is impossible with the class sizes and doesn't help anyway, since the kids who are struggling still get isolated and think that they are 'failing' and the more able get bored.

I'm part time (80%) and brought home £1100 this month!

Well this was a day and half work and we saw the boiler for sale on the internet at £850. I'm def thinking of retraining!

HolyCow MB £1100 part-time? That's mine and DH's joint GROSS income a month including the child benefit!! Our mortgage is 1/3 of that!!

Blimey!

Dh's uncle has just retired to Spain in his mid 50s and he is a plumber!

Dh will retire from the RAF at 55 and is thinking of what job he can go into, as we will not be able to afford any uni education for the kids unless he gets another job!

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not whinging about the cash. I love my job. My point was simply that getting lots of academic qualifications ( I have a degree from Oxford and PGCE) doesn't mean that there arn't a lot of non academic jobs that don't pay better , IYSWIM!

I agree, it seems that people with a trade (plumbing etc) are VERY well paid. I'm an accountant myself (work at home very part-time) and charge about a quarter of what the local accountants charge and I know that when the kids are at school I'll start to work full time again then we won't be poor anymore HURRAH!! - hopefully DH will have enough roofing experience then to get paid a bit more than his currently crappy hourly rate which is £8.50p/hr LESS than the nat. Average for roofers.

I agree, it seems that people with a trade (plumbing etc) are VERY well paid. I'm an accountant myself (work at home very part-time) and charge about a quarter of what the local accountants charge and I know that when the kids are at school I'll start to work full time again then we won't be poor anymore HURRAH!! - hopefully DH will have enough roofing experience then to get paid a bit more than his currently crappy hourly rate which is £8.50p/hr LESS than the nat. Average for roofers.

And the part time is 4 days out of 5, so not very part time. In actual fact I spend much of my 'off' time preparing lessons, marking etc so that I am freer in the evening s and weekends with the kids.

Auntmabel, I need a roofing person! You're not in Surrey are you?

Because secondary schools are "judged" very much on A-C grades, and primarily on 5 A-C grades, and most recently on 5 A-C grades including English and Maths; there is very little motivation for schools to effectively educate those children who have no earthly chance of getting A-C grades.

We do put in all our kids for 9, unless they are boarderline in lots....them we 'encourage' them to drop the worst subjects to concentrate on the others. This is done to bump up the stats, but it does help the kids get bettwe over all results in my experience

mb - are you saying that work is not marked ?/10 or whatever?

Studies show that if kids are given a mark alone they do least well. If they are given a mark or grade and a comment they do a bit better. They do best if they are given a comment only.

Give them a mark and all the concentrate on is 'who came top', not how they can improve their understanding.

We correct errors, but I have never given marks out of 10.

They get marks and a NC level in tests, they happen 4 times a year

but they do get marked at GCSE - so what's all that about?

You'll be calling them 'Miss' next

Two of our most successful departments results-wise have opposing views on this one. One gives no marks whatsoever - just comments (except on report where they have to give grades) for the reasons MB describes.

But another equally successful department gives highly detailed marks all the time, sticks them on a spreadsheet which is projected on the board, so all the kids get to see all the marks. It's also colour-coded, so yellow is top, pink is average, green is below average, and blue is dreadful. So it's very easy for everyone to scan through and see who's top and who's bottom!

Missle, I call them 'Ladies and gentlemen' cos thats what I expect them to be!

I must say that when they do get grades they take no notice of and advice on how to improve, all they are interested in is who they beat!

Top incentive at the moemnt for my kids is the ' Mrs MartianBishop says well done' stamp! Highly sought after, especialy by the classes in the upper school and the sixth form....I kid you not!

Message withdrawn

I am trying to train them in the 'two stars and a wish' thing. In other words when you assess work, and I try to get them to assess their work and that of their peers, you have to say two positive things and one way that it could be improved.

Not easy with the older kids, but the Year 7s are quite good at it, because loads of Primary schools do this.

Anyone interested in reading about this should google for 'Inside the black box' and 'Beyond the black box'. this work is driving much of educational thought atm

It must be a bit of a shock when they go to university though, if they do. We grade absolutely everything to the nth degree.