Yasmin Alibhai-Brown in the Independent thinks Mumsnet is shallow and self-interested... what do you think?

[JustineMumsnet]

From today's Independent:

Look at the immensely powerful Mumsnet website and some other copycat ones and there is barely any mention of (or fundraising for) the famines in East Africa where mothers push dry breasts into the limp mouths of babies as they die. Jeremy Clarkson wrote an abominable column last week on these starving children. Where is the famous Mumsnet battalion to slap him down? Not much about domestic violence either, or any serious take on the policies of the Coalition government which are leading to unprecedented numbers of female redundancies. They are low-paid and therefore, I suppose, not part of the cosy circle, a Starbucks for the right kind of mummies. But if you want to know about skiing with babies, its all there, plus very efficient guilt cleaning for working ladies and buckets of advice for SAHMs (stay-at-home mums).

You can see the whole article here

Goodness ! Y A-B levelling an accusation of shallowness ! Pot/kettle anyone ?

Yas just makes me want to turn off. I see her name and all interest leaves me! Strange reverse psychology...she makes me not want to give a damn!

mmmmm interresting article just breezed through it to be honest, but interresting that the rest of the world thinks of us. I remember when I started on here and my husband called it Daily Mail.com! He thought it was crap and its what the media has put out there. He had not been on here himself and alot of people are like this, we have had negative press I think.

Wheres the comments about Mumsnet helped me

...come to terms with the birth of my stillborn baby.......
...help me through a difficult pregnancy.....
.....gave me advice on bedtime routines....
.....gave me advice on should I leave my mentally abusive partner....
....am I being treated right at work.....
....help me please I have been ttc for 4 years and no BFP....

Maybe someone should right an article in response stating what they have got out of mumsnet.

I myself lost my baby girl to stillbirth in April and if it wasnt for Mumsnet I just dont think I would be functioning at this moment.

I thought MN began as a forum to compare baby products so we didn't have to swallow advertising blurb and has now become, at its most 'shallow' a place to have entertaining chats about trivia, and at its best a place to discuss exactly the sort of issues YAB has deliberately ignored the existence of on MN and a real lifeline for people who aren't just discussing those issues but actually living them.

It's the modern version of the village pump. Some people will be interested in government/international affairs etc. Some fancy want a bitch and a gossip. Some want to know what time of year to sow their onions or how to deal with rising damp. I doubt many people read every word of The Independent - they'll choose the bits that interest them.

MN is another easy target for very lazy journalists - middle class, self-interested blah blah blah - how awful. YAB is always smug and dull and infused with snobbery. MN can be all those things but a much more interesting and varied read than the musings of YAB. She's just jealous.

Caliphora I think your view is very blinkered and seems to be in line with the YAB view of the demographic of mumsnet - and it is mostly wrong.
This place caters for people from all walks of life, but it doesn't suit everyone (fair enough).

If this site has ONE defining feature it is that it is somewhat unwelcoming to people unable to write properly, as in those who use textspeak and can't string a sentence together or use punctuation. That could be seen as élitist, but only if you assume that it's ONLY the "lower class" people who write like that; which isn't true. So yes, people whose preference is to write like that won't stay here because it doesn't suit them - not because they don't buy handcrafted pots or holiday in yurts, finding their inner goddess while they weave lentil yoghurts etc.

I think MN can be very aggressive at times but this is nonsense. zzzzz

WTF is a paccapod when it's at home (or wherever it is designed to be used)- will have to google that one! > of it's a changing bag. Shame thought it might be something exciting!

I buy loads second hand, like mine in decent quality / ethically slightly less bad stuff even if I can't afford the £££. Why would I ask questions though? I just search ebay for whatever it is surely? S'not hard.

There is a huge mix here but you have to go off track to find that: if there wasn't though why would benefit threads turn into car crashes? Why would there be stuff about Spanish mums in the UK, or redundacy advice?

You get the mix if you hang about in ante/ post natal or specific interest areas sucha s SN or bereavement. Otherwise the threads themselves select by interest.

I remember during the whole SWMNBN fiasco having a letter published in the Indie about how MN helped me through 2 kids being dx'd with ASD; it's just ink on paper is all, whatever suits this week.

Agree with Thumbwitch - And, unlike Yasmin AB, the articulate women on MN, typing with one hand on a baby etc don't have copy editors helping them. Who does she think reads the Independent anyway?!

Hi greenzebra I'm so sorry to hear of you losing your daughter so sadly in April.
Glad MN has been a supportive community for you in hard times, and hope it will continue to be so for you.

I am shocked at how many people I've met in RL and here who have suffered neo-natal tragedy.
(And yes, it has made me get involved with the white ribbon alliance as well as volunteering with the NCT. Hope the government realises that maternal services vitally need further resources - they cannot be cut further but must be improved )

jugglingwiththreeshoes I totally agree.

Caliphora - you seem to be as blinkered regarding what goes into MN threads as YAB. There's plenty of people buying supermarket clothes for their kids and clamouring for Sale bargains (Next mid-season sale this weekend, by the way) to kit their kids out cheaply and there's plenty of threads where people mention this.

No idea what a pacapod is. Never heard of it. After long deliberation, and a long time pre-Mumsnet, we did but a sturdy beech M&P cotbed for DS1, though. Between the two boys, we got 3.5 years use out of it. Due to the choice of hardwood, instead of pine, it was still rock solid and barely marked when we'd finished with it and we ebayed it for half of what we paid for it. Before they went into the cotbed, DS1 slept beside us in a hand-me-down Moses basket (which we chucked when he upchucked in it. Bleeding ridiculous invention) And DS2 slept in a swing crib which we bought discounted to £35 and sold for £30.

Bored yet? I am.

Haven't read the whole thread, but I just wanted to point out there's nothing wrong with being shallow, it's MN, it's not the whole world.

I just wondered if YAB has considered the economic contribution made by the middle classes she seems to despise. Damn them paying their 40% taxes!!! Curse them for paying VAT on their Starbucks coffees, and keeping all those Baristas employed!!!! Blast their eyes for putting their children into nursery, paying those childcare professionals, while they selfishly go out to work!!! She is keen to mention low paid women being made redundant during the recession, but the "middle class" (amongst others) contributes hugely to keeping others in employment, and their taxes help fund the benefits paid to those who lose their jobs.

By the same token, as long as you can afford it, what is the issue with buying stuff for your children??? There are loads of people employed in making, transporting and selling baby / children's goods, and those who make the personal choice to buy new things for their children are (again) keeping those people in employment, and paying VAT on lots of the items they buy (some items are exempt from VAT I know, but not everything).

Personally, our DDs have a mixture of high street, sale, supermarket, second hand, home made/renovated and the odd more pricey luxury item. Clothes get handed down where possible. Anything still OK after they are done will be sold on, so I'm not writing from a vantage point of extreme privilege or anything, just a bit puzzled. I have seen a few threads with quite condemnatory attitudes to parents buying new / technically unnecessary items. I understand everyone has a different budget, and there are lots of products on the market that you could easily live without, but why condemn someone because they are able to, and choose to, spend more than others? No-one is being coerced here!

I agree kendodd - the nicest people can be a bit shallow now and then. This can also be called "having fun".

£50 for a nursing bag???

Surely I can't be the only woman who's never owned a nursing bag? What's wrong with an old rucksack?!

Caliph, I also remember a few months back an eye-opening thread called something like 'you know you're skint when...'. Lots of the posters were m/c women who were so hard up that they were missing meals so that they could feed their kids. Living in big houses which they couldn't afford, wondering where mortgage money was going to come from and selling off whatever they could to keep going. But to an outside observer they probably looked well-off. Goes to show how deceptive appearances can be, especially in a recession.

Greenzebra . How terribly sad for you. Really glad you found such amazing support here; it can be an amazing place for people that need it.

Which brings to mind people like Trinity, who have had teams of MNers go round to her house after her DH died and she all but fell apart. I believe they literally helped her put her home back in order as she had let everything go.

I hope Y A-B U is reading this thread and feeling like a bit of a silly moo.

What is a nursing bag and what happened to the good old fashioned pair of boobs?

to Greenzebra and any others.

The Pacapod website refers to them as nappy bags or changing bags, not nursing bags. I don't own or want to own one, but it is just a bag! Lots of people have handbags / phones / shoes that cost much more than this!!! It is just personal choice! And not everyone breastfeeds. With DD1 I'd have loved to use my (very) old fashioned boobs, but it didn't happen, had better luck with them second time round. :)

I suppose your bra could be called your nursing bags if you're breastfeeding. My boobs are not old fashioned, just old. Would like them to be conical and proudly thrusting through a cashmere sweater. Shallow? Not my bra!

Just an expensive bag imo. But I like cheeeeeeap, and small when it comes to bags. I subscribe to a general rule of bags -- that no matter how big it is you will fill it somehow.

Like bins :)

Yes -- I had one that eventually resembled a bin and I swore never again. I had nagging shoulder pain that I couldn't explain until I weighed the bag one day.