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Yasmin Alibhai-Brown in the Independent thinks Mumsnet is shallow and self-interested... what do you think?

323 replies

JustineMumsnet · 19/09/2011 08:59

From today's Independent:

Look at the immensely powerful Mumsnet website and some other copycat ones and there is barely any mention of (or fundraising for) the famines in East Africa where mothers push dry breasts into the limp mouths of babies as they die. Jeremy Clarkson wrote an abominable column last week on these starving children. Where is the famous Mumsnet battalion to slap him down? Not much about domestic violence either, or any serious take on the policies of the Coalition government which are leading to unprecedented numbers of female redundancies. They are low-paid and therefore, I suppose, not part of the cosy circle, a Starbucks for the right kind of mummies. But if you want to know about skiing with babies, its all there, plus very efficient guilt cleaning for working ladies and buckets of advice for SAHMs (stay-at-home mums).

You can see the whole article here

OP posts:
blackeyedsusan · 19/09/2011 22:59

yeh right, nothing like doing proper research, eh?

stella1w · 19/09/2011 23:05

sorry... trying to raise two kids on a low income in the middle of a recession with the cost of living rising and a govt intent on chipping away at the little help I get (local library now asking for donations at toddler time - why am I paying my council tax? is reading to toddlers for half an hour really adding to the cost of running a library?). Rotten birth due to underfunding of NHS etc etc. The personal IS the political.
When I was a child I asked my Mum what she did during the Vietnam years and she said she was busy bringing us up which I thought then was a crap answer but now see was totally understandable.

IWouldNotCouldNotWithAGoat · 20/09/2011 00:16

I once stormed into a dinner party shouting "Just look look at you all! Scum! Chatting and socialising whilst in East Africa mothers are shoving their empty breasts into the mouths of their dying babies! What the fuck have you got to say for yourselves!?"

I don't get invited out much any more.

scottishmummy · 20/09/2011 00:17

did you get any dinner or huckled oot door

NormaStanleyFletcher · 20/09/2011 00:35

Some wise and witty posted put this further up the thread...

Anybody else reckon she has just put us in in order to generate traffic for her article ?

Thumbwitch · 20/09/2011 00:48

Wow, that Clarkson article was really something. I am amazed that YAB apparently misread it - who could? It was a very moving piece of writing and clearly demonstrated his anger and feelings of helplessness at the state of the place. And he's very probably right about aid money going to fit out the Government army, which is tragic.

I donate to World Vision and it appears that at least some of the money I give actually gets to the child I sponsor. Seems a better option than blanket donation anyway. Am desperately sad to have read that bit about there being no girls under 18 and why. :(

SpeedyGonzalez · 20/09/2011 01:12

Have now just read that Clarkson piece. I do not know what on earth Alibhai-Brown was thinking. Clearly she wasn't (her background as an African is no excuse - Clarkson's intent is as clear as day, even to someone like me who until 10 minutes ago loathed everything about him). Nor was whoever put her piece on the pages of the ironically middle-class Independent (which, when I last looked, has lots of frothy, prattling articles about nice stuff you can buy. It also has a few interesting articles about serious stuff that's going on in the world, but I'll take a leaf out of Yasmin's book and pretend they're not there Hmm).

In the last few weeks on MN I have been one of several posters supporting a suicidal woman and helping another whose family life feels like it's collapsing. Such prattling nonsense those conversations were, clearly. YAB was totally right to write them off as "buckets of advice for SAHMs".

How interesting. Both articles have completely changed my view of the authors.

(hi thumbwitch!)

EldritchCleavage · 20/09/2011 01:13

And he is right, Africa is fucked. Totally and completely fucked
What, all of it? Every single country on the whole continent, equally?
That's really annoyed me. JC goes to Uganda so now he's an Africa expert. It is one of my bugbears, the 'Africa' thing. Ignorant lumping together of a diverse continent, usually the better to be able to dismiss it. I have a West African parent and have lived there. I don't presume to set myself up as an expert on the Horn of Africa or the Maghreb as a consequence. How would Britons feel if people suggested we were 'completely fucked' because Greece is?

Mind you, given what she wrote about MN, YAB complaining about JC's article really is the pot calling the kettle grimy arse. She's been pandered to at the Indy for too long and has lost any balanced perspective as a result.

DioneTheDiabolist · 20/09/2011 01:14

Classic case of mistaken identity. She obviously though that mumsnet was a political party or charity, instead of an internet forum that caters to lots of different people. Vitually everything that YAB mentions? I have seen on here. So what is the problem?

SpeedyGonzalez · 20/09/2011 01:49

Eldritch, I too loathe the lumping together of all African countries as one homogenous mass of poverty, corruption and crime. There is so much ethnic, cultural, historical and socio-economic diversity across the whole continent, and people like you and I, who originate from there, know this better than people who've lived their whole lives in one culture apart from the odd sunny week in Spain. And god knows that Western nations are just as corrupt in our own sweet ways; we just hide it better, which makes us devious as well. Niiice.

At the same time the more I learn about the varying histories and present-day situations of African countries, the more I have to admit that much of life in Africa as a whole is in a horrible mess, largely as the ongoing legacy of the way that Western powers ripped it to shreds under colonialism, shackled it as a parting gesture before closing the door on their empires and also through well-meant but oh-so-damaging aid programmes, and then pushed its face in the mud through so-called 'free' trade agreements, etc, which trash any chance of a level playing field in the present day.

When people say 'well, they've had their independence for x years, they still haven't sorted themelves out' they show their utter can't-be-arsed ignorance and, frankly, stupidity. It's like asking why, after being released from say 40 years of ongoing physical, financial and emotional abuse, a woman hasn't found a boyfriend and a steady job yet. Imagine that such a woman, who has been physically damaged and utterly destroyed to the core, is then released but only on condition that she is financially tied to her abuser for life - and her offspring too. And yet she tries her hardest to leap straight up to the level of her peers, having never actually had a chance to go through all the usual stages of life development. She's going to fail quite a lot, isn't she? It's a crap analogy but it sort of depicts only part of what the West has done and continues to do across Africa. Just this summer in Nigeria Western oil companies have finally been compelled by law to stop polluting the oil-rich regions on a scale a million times worse than the BP Atlantic oil spill. They have finally been told that they have to start cleaning up the mess, which, until now, they had just ignored. That is one in a million stories of the West fucking up Africa. And we complain about economic migrants coming to our shores to clean our offices. Jeez. Hmm

What I am saying here is that I do understand why Clarkson said Africa is fucked, though I'm not sure he understands that statement as broadly as I do - and I wouldn't claim to be an expert, either.

It's late. I am ranting. I only hope I haven't embarassed myself as much as YA-B Wink

Thumbwitch · 20/09/2011 03:54

Speeeeeeedddyy!! long time no see - glad to see you here and thank you for your informative post.

I agree that JC was wildly generalising (who doesn't? He'd fit in well here for that attribute at least) but on the whole I think he has a point about many of the poorer and more corrupt-government countries. And good for him writing about it, not in any soft-soapy hand-wringing way, just stark reality. He's right - it made me stop and think far more than seeing some sleb looking all woebegone about children who haven't got shoes.

mathanxiety · 20/09/2011 05:44

I think you should have just said SO? in your letter.

I don't think you should have been so defensive. Addressing her argument thus 'Yes there are threads about the myriad of personal decisions women make every day - some of which are relatively trivial, many of which are very funny - but elsewhere on the site, thousands of women are debating the issues of the day, supporting friends through relationship crisis and campaigning for a fairer world' just gives it credence it doesn't deserve.

spiderpig8 · 20/09/2011 09:02

Does she not get that MN is primarily a parenting website, not a political one.The clue's in the name!

NoseyNooNoo · 20/09/2011 09:21

I think you've made the mistake of thinking that Yasmin Alibhai-Brown doesn't speak out of her backside most of the time. It's a rare day that I agree with the thrust of one of her arguments. Yes it's a generalisation but I understand she likes a good generalisation too.

TakeThisOneHereForAStart · 20/09/2011 10:06

I just read the Clarkson article.

Much better and more more thought-provoking than that Y-A-B one.

She could learn something from him.

prettybird · 20/09/2011 10:07

To defend MN Towers use of the statement "many of our members would rather chew their right arm of than describe themselves as middle class" - that is true. Many would - Justine didn't say most .

I say that as someone who is quite happily middle class, always has been and finds it strange that (some) people seem to hate the idea of being so. Wink I have even ski-ed with a baby (but never had a nanny Wink)

However, I'd challenge the person who said that just by being on here, being literate and articulate and having access to the internet means that almost by definition you are middle class. That is a real insult to those that define themselves as working class. Hmm

mumwithdice · 20/09/2011 10:21

prettybird I think that poster meant that that was what Y-AB was saying. If I recall correctly, the poster also said it was an insult to those who define themselves as working class.

prettybird · 20/09/2011 10:54

It was fruitybread who said The whole middle class thing.... well, MN does feel very middle class to me. Before anyone gets irate - let's remember, online forums need you to be (a) online, and (b) literate enough to type clearly. The most deprived and excluded mothers in UK society don't tend to have internet access at home, nor can they all type and express themselves like a graduate. So you won't find them here discussing their problems

I agree with her latter point about the most deprived people not having internet access - but that does not mean you can define everyone else as "middle class" .

To me, it seems to imply that only the middle class can be a) on-line and b) educated. Which is wrong.

cory · 20/09/2011 11:01

It is not just about defining yourselves as working class: YAB clearly indicated that the MN demography is comfortably off yummy mummies who have no experience of Real Problems. Because the assumption is that it is impossible to have a middle class education and be poor and on benefits. Try telling that to some of the MNers caring for severely disabled children.

notenoughsocks · 20/09/2011 11:42

Have just read the Clarkson article and am feeling slightly disorientated. Knowing that Clarkson wasn't worth even paying attention to has, for me, been one of those essential truths in life - something I have never had to think about.

But now...I did not agree with the article 100% but, all the same, I think I will have to reasses my views Confused.

petaluma · 20/09/2011 11:48

We invited YAB into our college a few years ago as we thought she would be an inspirational speaker as part of some in house training we were doing. This is quite something for a bunch of cynical teachers to invite (and pay for) someone to come in to an event like this. We were even quite excited at the prospect of her coming in.

However, she came across as extraordinarily arrogant, dogmatic and clearly had absolutely no conception of what is was like to work in a multi-ethnic teaching establishment like ours, despite implying her cultural experiences gave her the right to make gross generalisations about our student body.

We came out of the talk feeling rather empowered and smug, but only because we had just come to the realisation we knew much more about the intricate and sometimes very complicated lives and cultural background of our students.

This experience made me not feel very surprised at her article about Mumsnet.

Thumbwitch · 20/09/2011 11:50

cory - or even to some of those who have lost jobs and been unable to get another in the current economic climate; or who have been let down by shitbag partners while looking after their preschoolers and suddenly have to find work in the current economic climate.

Lots of reasons why "MC" parents may fall on hard times (not just MC parents of course, everyone, just discussing within the goalposts set by YAB of what constitutes MC)

prettybird · 20/09/2011 12:10

Just listening to YAB on the Jeremy Vine show. Maybe I've been prejudiced by this thread, but a journalist who says "you know what I mean?" and "you know" does not inspire confidence in her journalistic skills .

But then perhaps I am being judgemental Grin

ThePosieParker · 20/09/2011 12:11

She was an arse on JV just now, horrid woman.

Chrononaut · 20/09/2011 12:24

this journalist has obviously got us confused with 4chan.