"Childcare In The UK 'Most Expensive In World'" Sky news report

[LittlePickleHead]

news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16064005

The cost of childcare is forcing women to turn down jobs or give up work because they can't afford the cost of childcare.

This is true personally, DH and I are holding off on trying for DC2 until DD is in school as putting two into childcare would cost more than I can earn. Much tougher is on those who already have children who have no lost tax credits or subsidised childcare and are now being forced into poverty.

My cycnical side thinks that taking mothers out of the workplace has many benefits for the government...

My DD is in private nursery, costing £486pcm for 3 days per week. This includes the 15 government funded hours. DH and I pay for this by both being able to use childcare vouchers.

After paying nursery fees, my wages contribute £2,500 to the family 'pot'.

If I'm honest with myself, my DD gets more out of 3 days nursery/4 days home that if I were a full time SAHP. We chose a nursery which we (and she) loves and gives her a great nurturing environment.

If we hadn't been able to find a childcare solution we were 100% happy with, I would probably have been a SAHP. Fortunately we could probably have just about managed, although we might have had to moved to a different area.

I wouldn't like nurseries to be squeezed financially, as there would be a danger of dropping standards. And I don't feel the country can afford to offer any more financial support for childcare as there are so many other urgent needs. So, from a selfish point of view, my family have got to just 'suck it up' for a few years and then work out how we're going to balance school and school holidays with 2 working parents.

We've found a way that we can cope with in the short term, while keeping an eye on the longer time and my working future.

As others have said, I take my hat of to LP, who not only bear the brunt of the financial strain, but also must feel as they can't win, whatever they do (SAHP/WOHP).

Quite honestly, rather than cost of childcare (a necessary expense for many families) I get more riled with parents who have 'free' childcare from family and don't appreciate how lucky they are!

Spare a thought for poor folk like myself who work in childcare and actually end up worse off when putting our own children in the very childcare settings where we work!
I have only been able to work part time up to now, in order to use mine and DHs annual leave for school holidays. Now they're getting towards secondary school it is again becoming economically feasible to take a management post in a nursery and bring a little money in after childcare.
I would like to see tax credits going to settings instead of parents as it's all too easy for parents to spend the money then have nothing left to pay nursery.

nannynick Danish tax law is so complicated and we have tried comparing UK v Danish system many a time, with no clear success! The differential between earnings is a lot less (ie the secretary won't earn 100X less than the CEO) but it does seem they all pay roughly 50% tax really. They have a lot of very expensive social security systems (perhaps easier with a population of 4m). For example not only do they not pay for university but they are given a childrens grant (can't think of the term) from about 16 years. I have never seen such stylish student accommodation or students that eat and drink so well!! BUT... they are beginning to question if they can afford it and have a more right wing government than in the the past so things will change.

Someone mentioned having 1 or 0 children but china tried this and now has an ageing population in many cities with not enough people to support them and has started to allow more than one child. Children are not a drain on resources in the long term (well if they grow up and work that it is!!)

Childcare is expensive. I had almost a four year gap between my 2 children as childcare costs would have made my job untenable. Fortunately No 1 was in receipt of a nursery grant which helped. I also work for myself but when I have to attend training courses (which are compulsory)the cost is double with travel and childcare, the latter not being a tax deductible. ( My business has to bear that cost yet my colleagues don't have that cost!) Even working flexibly I still get hammered in the school holidays....This summer childcare was more than I earned and due to staff shortage I couldn't get any leave. Subsidised childcare would help everyone enormously. Also being out of the work place for 5 + years (in my case 8) I think I would find it difficult to find work when they start school.

I never get why the poor families struggle with it as it is practically paid for for you. Mine has always been paid for by government in full by tax credits and for a while she was doing 4 full days a week. Its only expensive if you live in an area like London or you are too well off to get tax credits

I couldn't agree more. I have 3 dc, live on the se and earn a good salary (city) and it is now hardly worth me going back. Really can't be right that you can only do it if you ate seriously rich or low waged so get help. Funnily enough, I just got an invite in the post to take part In a mori poll / interview about this very issue, let me know yr thoughts.

govt has no interest taking women out workforce,that conspiracy theory tosh. no govt wants to lose tax and ni contributors.but yes childcare is expensive

I am saddened by the number of people posting saying we shouldn't have larger families/children close together because the childcare costs are so prohibitive.
Families should be decided upon first and foremost by love/desire to have a family, and what's best for the family unit (and yes, I see the irony in that many will say that costs of childcare are an important part of creating 'what's best for the family').

I have three young DCs. My youngest is just 7mo and I have, regrettably, taken the tough decision to resign from my job because CC costs are more than I would earn. I love my job. I love being a mother. I don't love being a SAHM (and use the word "stuck" instead of "stay" when talking to people in RL).

My job decision is regrettable, but the situation is not something so unsurmountable that I would change what we have. As it happens, they get on brilliantly with the age gaps they have. They are very happy little monkeys and we are very, very fortunate, and nor were we reckless in making the decision to try for another and then another.

We are not well off though. We are making many, many financial sacrifices to survive on my DH's income for the forseeable future, but the family unit will thrive. The DCs won't get any big presents from us for Christmas/birthdays etc, but they won't notice at this age, and we do all the free activities you can think of. They may moan in a couple of years' time when they see what other children do/get/see/have, but I still wouldn't change it for the world as we are very lucky to have three healthy and happy children. Again, I'm saddened that some people are advocating a material/financial approach to deciding whether or not to have children.

no,cant just pop em out for sake of it.people need some societal responsibilities and if you cant afford lots of chuldren dont have them and expect state to pick up.size of family needs to be planned,managed thing not just having babies for love of a big family

so it is prudent to sit down and pragmatically work out what is achievable and affordable

Where I live (East Yorkshire), full time daycare is in the range of £28-£36. The cheapest being NOT providing lunch and the most expensive to providing all snacks, lunch, drinks and nappies and wipes until the age of 2. Childminders usually charge about £3.50 an hour.

We wont get any help towards costs because we earn too much. Even if I gave up work (household income reduced by about half) we wouldn't even qualify for child benefit from 2013 yet if my DH earned about £2,500 less and under the higher tax band and I stayed in my job, we would qualify for it! Crazy stuff!

On the news they were saying that full time childcare is about as much as another mortgage - it's true. At £30 a day, five days a week (22 days a month - give or take a few weekends) would cost £660! That is nearly as much as our mortgage!

Luckily I have a mother willing to drive 130 miles south every week and stay for two days to look after grandchild number 2, which reduces our childcare costs by 2/5.

i am a childminder and work in worcestershire, i charge £3.00 per hour per child so basically earn £12.00 per hour, not a fat lot but a good enough second income for us and of course i save on my own child care costs as am at home for my after school age own dcs.

my point is that childminding now has been made so much harder by the ofsted regulations(some of which i support) but i find that i work 8 till 6 and still need at least another hour per day on top to fill out all the paperwork.

lots of cms have packed up in my area as the paperwork has piled on with ever increasing regularity, policies on everything from a bee sting to a terrorist attack!!! learning journeys, planning and obs etc..

honestly!! i was asked by my ofsted inspector what my policy was if i broke my leg while out with the children..ffs.

so there are now many thousands less cms offering affordable flexible care and people are driven to more expensive options or of course its driven into the black economy of cash in hand ( no tax revenue)and no regulation so thats the worst option off all.

i dont know why this subject is being aired.

it is an old story! 1 child, i could work, 2 children, not earnign enough..

we know grandparents do a hell of a lot of childcare. so why is this subject suddenly News?

oh, my second child is 14, so that was pre tax credits, i spose that is the reason they are talking about it. they are not working, eprhaps they are going to cancel the tax credits

Cancelling tax credits without a replacement would be akin to political suicide unfortunately. IOW. it's never going to happen.

I am a single parent and just about keep my head above water. I may get 70% of my childcare paid, but that still means I need to find 30% - and also find money for things that I wouldnt have to if I were claiming I.S. like rent and council tax money. I also have to be able to run a car (completely unable to do nursery and school run and get to work without one) and pay for the extra things involved with working.

My childcare is £41.75 a day. That includes breakfast, lunch, tea and snacks but I usedto have to provide nappies and wipes (DS2 is now 3 and TT) and I have to provide alternative milk and puddings as he is lactose intollerant. That is 7.45-6pm daycare.

I work 25 hours a week over 4 days. I use breakfast clubs at the school, and after school clubs. Thankfully my mum helps me out 2 days a week saving me £18 a week. And thank god I have just started a term time only job - this summer was extortionate with finding playschemes and care for DS1 so I could work.

But, once DS2 is at school it will be worth it - I will have a good job with great hours for the kids, and need very little tax credits or benefit help. I chose to spend this time working and making very little money as there was no way I could get the job I am now in with a 5 year+ career break.

My DSs are only 19m apart, which was a nightmare at times. However, when I planned them I was happily married and we had good joint earnings with family help. Then the shit hit the fan.

Nursery fees are expensive, tax credits help low earners like myself. And long term it must be worth it for the government to keep people in work. I have no idea of a solution to fix it all though - without more tax credits and therefore more government debt.

I disagree to an extent scottishmummy - I'm not saying keep on popping 'em out till they no longer pop, but fall out , but I do think expecting people to 'calculate' when it makes most financial sense to have kids is a sad situation. And FWIW we won't be getting any help from the state.

This is affecting men too, my DH is a stay at home daddy as with no family nearby it was too expensive to have full time childcare at this stage. Stay at home daddies have apparently increased six fold in the last decade, I read somewhere the other day.

Flubbabubba -"but I do think expecting people to 'calculate' when it makes most financial sense to have kids is a sad situation."

But not to calculate would be reckless and irresponsible, surely. I know people say there's never a right time to have children but most people I know have made sure they are in a position to support the child once it arrives. Accidents happen and that's a different situation altogether but in the main I'd say it's a sad situation if people don't consider their situation before considering having a child.

we chose when to ttc based on finances,and social circumstances
most people do
eg settled at work, can afford baby and nursery,stable accomodation
i wouldn't have planned pg without any of those factors

I'll probably be lucky to have a job by Christmas. My mother used to provide childcare as she lived with us but she is in hospital now, I cannot get childcare for the hours I work so am pretty much stumped.

Luckily dts will be 10 in December but it is harder to find childcare for older children and I cannot leave them in the house alone! Being a single parent is hard enough but the stress of it all has caused illness and a near breakdown.

We chose when to ttc based on social circumstances.

We also chose to ttc partly based on my mother's and sisters' ttc histories - it was likely that we were going to have difficulties in conceiving. As it turned out, we conceived very quickly with both DC1 & 2. Maybe that's why I feel so strongly about it, even if I haven't worded it very well.

Yes juule I agree possibly reckless, but only irresponsible if you are going to have to rely on the state entirely. I am fortunate enough that I have been able to save a fair bit while pg (through a lot of hard budgeting), so could still contribute once on maternity leave, and we are still able to provide a roof over our DCs' heads.

Maybe my original post came out a bit wrong. In my defence, I was writing with a passion (and while trying to multi-task with my 3 DCs too! :o))

Flubbabubba - you have stated that you do have enough money to live on with just your DHs salary. I presume you had some indication that this was the case when you were ttc. You may well be making sacrifices, but some people would not be able manage on their DHs salary full stop.

sorry xpost flubba

I am glad this has been brought up. I think the whole other side of this is rural parents.
My dh is not someone I can work around for childcare, as hes only home 4months a year and the extra money would be amazing, but I would need childcare for my youngest, part time childcare for my middle one and wrap around for when hes nursery and my eldest whose in school would need wrap around. Here we have no after school clubs so we would need a nanny. Not even a childminder would work. It's stupid we struggle on one wage and are close to loosing our home but there is no other option unless the government provide low cost after school clubs to every school and nursery no matter how small that school is and increases the number of nurseries in rural areas and make it cheaper. Impossible is the only word for this.

My only solution is a sort of mothers wage not this stupid child tax and child benefit, but a lump some paid monthly to mothers to cover food costs etc, which rises if costs rise. If mums cant work they shouldn't have to struggle to make ends meet, we need to be looked after better in this country. My dh is in the forces a huge sacrifice for us as a family but i feel we get nothing back and to struggle is too much.

I would love to work to bring in something in but how can I, so in our home we go on struggling emotionally and financially.

My fees for four days a week, two DCs in nursery/private pre-school with some voucher subsidy is around £19,200 a year.
The wonderful staff get minimum wage.

FWIW, I think that nurseries should be run on a not-for-profit basis - that all fees go to the running of the nursery and better staff wages & conditions, and not run as a standard commercial business where the profits get skimmed off - wouldn't have to be Govmnt - could be charity status for example? Have no idea of where all the money goes - can't all be in running costs. These places must be very profitable.