To ask pro-choice MNers to email your MPs? <this is not a request to vote on anything>

[EricNorthmansMistressOfPotions]

There is an article here about the proposed amendments to the health and social care bill which will force women to undergo 'independent' counselling before being allowed to choose to terminate a pregnancy. The assumption is that BPAS and the like have a financial investment in encouraging women to terminate and as such their counselling is biased. The stated goal is to reduce the number of terminations per year by forcing women to delay between seeking and receiving termination, and having to undergo additional counselling (political bias unknown, though easily guessed at) prior to the termination. ND hopes that woman will change their minds during this enforced extended waiting period.

If you think this is a shit idea you can email your MP by clicking this link

This is not a request to vote on anything at all

I wasn't trying to prove a link between anything actually. I was saying I could see how therecould be a conflict of interest if that was the case. I didn't say GPs provide abortions either - that's why i said doctors. I was wondering if it was a similar scheme though.

Done, I look forward to my MP's generic & non-commital reply, In her favour is that she does reply & in a timely manner too. not like Boris Johnson who I emailed several times when he was my MP & never once replied

As I don't personally know every woman who has had an abortion, yes I am generalising. Just as you are when you say they are ignorant of the facts.

But my opinion is based on real life experience, my own and of others. So for us it is fact.

I remember that thread UsingMainlySpoons.

She was eaten alive for daring to suggest that it was actually ok have an abortion and not spend your the rest of your life in a miasma of GUILT, SHAME and ANGUISH.

Bumbley do you think we could possibly move on from this point about blobs/cells/embryos/foetuses - whatever. In the first place it's is only barely relevant to the issue and in the second place you've made the point at least half a dozen times.

Honestly. We get it.

You think women are deluding themselves about the developmental stage of the foetus/embryo they are aborting. You think they need to be counselled out of this "delusion". You think current counselling and advice does not address this point, although, respectfully, many people on this thread who have actual experience of abortion counselling have disagreed with you.

I think this argument over terminology is a total side issue - what a woman calls a foetus she wants to terminate says more about her state of mind than her understanding of biology and is in case anecdotal evidence at best.

I was on that thread myself. Good on her. A lot of people backed her up and a few people even dared to say they felt the same.

I don't see what right it is of anyone's to go noseying their way into other people's lives and demanding what they should do and how they should feel about this, that and the other.

If you don't like abortion, don't have one. Leave everyone else alone.

TYV - It was brought up by another poster and I was addressing her points. Why do you feel the need to comment on it further if you want to move on from it?
In any case, you clearly you don't get the point I was making if you think I'm saying that women are deluding themselves or that I think they should be 'counselled out of it'.

I'm heading out but just wanted to say I think this thread has been great because of lack of flaming, it has also really made me think about a few things and get out of my 'mummy bubble' so thank you OP for posting it.

The last thing I'd like to add is that ND's stated aim is to reduce abortions, not unwanted pregnancies. That's a pretty clear statement of intent that the counselling on offer won't be independent.

Oh and ND is a vile, woman-hating cah. But that would be two things

Done, it's that fucking Dorres woman again.

WouldVERYMuchLikeTheMediaToExposeTheRubbishThisWomanSpoutsButDoubtTheyWillTiggaxx

yy to counselling being of variable quality & use; I was told my expression of anger and frustration on becoming disabled was 'unattractive'. Making it compulsory would obv. not help. Are we to assume that Tory Dorries opposes private health 'care' due to potential conflict of interest on principle? Seems unlikely to me, but then I am a revolutionary Marxist bit left wing sometimes.

In addition to petitions, Mp's etc, those in Unions etc can put resolutions through their branches.

michelleseashell that would be fine if the people who didn't agree didn't have to pay for those who refuse to get the bloody pill

I have no objection to those having a abortion because of illness or rape apart from that
abortions should Only be given out with the pre text of contraception and therapy

To me if your their you don't want a baby so why would you refuse contraception straight after To ensure no return visits

maypole that makes no sense at all. What do you mean?

"The last thing I'd like to add is that ND's stated aim is to reduce abortions, not unwanted pregnancies. That's a pretty clear statement of intent that the counselling on offer won't be independent. "

It's not subtle is it?

You pay your national insurance maypole and I pay mine. Who is to say that in your lifetime you won't be more of a burden on the state than me or indeed, any one of us?

maypole1 - much though I hate to repeat myself, are you aware that women have given birth after having hysterectomy? Do you think they were careless?

The nhs don't have never needing funds I would rather people get the drugs they need tan provide endless abortions to those who had a careless Friday night fumble when a could that costs around a tenner will do the trick for five years the fact these people are having abortions means they do not want children

If you want a abortion fine but after wards the coil or some other long term thing should be fitted

Your their because you don't want a baby so why would
any one Object

maypole you are mental. Of course everyone who needs, or indeed wants, an abortion is there because of carelessness I hope you're not fat or a smoker, or a drinker, or ever take your eye off the road and crash. I meqan, think of the burden your mistakes cost. What you fail to understand is that it's my body and my choice. But also that an abortion is far less burdensome on the NHS than a child.

maypole a birth on the NHS is much more expensive than an abortion.

You do know that a lot of people fund their own abortions, maypole? And that, if a woman continues with the pregnancy instead of having an abortion, the NHS pays for antenatal care, the birth and the health of the child? Which are significantly more expensive over the long term than a termination, particularly if it's done early in the pregnancy?

Contraception is not 100% effective all of the time, so some women fall pregnant while they're taking contraception.

I love the whole 'why should my taxes pay for something on the NHS I won't need/use' line. It shows exactly what sort of discussion you can expect

Because your assumption that every woman who needs a termination hasn't bothered taking contraception is wrong.

Oh and your contraception of choice can't be the pill, it has to be something long acting and not easily removed because if you've had a termination you clearly don't have the mental capacity to take a tablet every day?

I assume you have no idea how offensive you're being. Stupidity clearly doesn't prevent the proper use of contraception, since you've presumably managed to find your way around a pill packet.

Also overlooking that for the woman the risks of pregnancy and birth are higher than for abortion.

It's not a nothing thing, is it, having a baby. It is a huge huge thing and I don't think that anyone should be forced to go through pregnancy and childbirth if they don't want to.

But the big question maypole is where do you draw the line at procedures you think aren't necessary? You clearly don't think abortions are necessary. What about tonsils? I spent a good 2 days living off the taxpayer in hospital while my tonsils were taken out. I wasn't going to die if they were left in, but they were so fucked it was affecting my quality of life. Ditto my boyfriend's wisdom tooth extraction. Wasn't going to kill him. I don't see anyone getting up in arms about those operations.