Nadine Dorries gets what she wants - what can we do?

[pointythings]

Link: here

This is going to mean women being forced to delay having an abortion because they are only going to be able to get it from an independent (read 'deligious anti abortion) organisation.

And we thought that what was happening in the US couldn't happen here.

I can't remember the last time I was this furious. Women should of course have counselling when they have an abortion - if they want it. And they should be able to get it from whomever they bloody well want - they should not be forced to get it from an organisatino whose primary aim is to talk them out of it.

It's subtle. If you look under 'I am pregnant' you will see that the major options mentioned are keeping the baby or adoption. There is a link to having an abortion - but it's not mentioned as a choice further up. When you follow that there is information on the abortion process - but also a BIG section on post abortion stress. Pro-life organisations lay a lot of stress on post abortion mental health issues. Basically have an abortion and go round the twist with regret etc. No mention of the effect their guilt inducing propaganda will have of course. At the bottom of the page you can click to see information about the development of a fetus.

No I couldn't either. Where is the anti-abortion stuff on Care Confidential?

I also couldn't find any evidence of any religious affiliation

Under "my teenage daughter is pregnant" "From a Mum to a Mum...
"Don't lose hope in yourself or in your daughter. What seemed hopeless for us has been turned around. It's not been easy at times, but it's been worth it. I now have a wonderful relationship with my daughter and granddaughter. I couldn't be more proud of them."".

I understand that they might not want to scare potential grandmothers, but that is totally one sided. It implies that to have an abortion is to fail both your daughter and yourself.

Oh and I just looked for my local centre. It's available 1 day a week 10-3 or 1 evening a month. Becuaes I know the locations involved I also know that it is being run through a local evangelical church. - but it does not explicitly say that. I attend another evangelical church in the area and I think it's fair to say my pro-choice views are radically out of step with most of the congregation. Ho hum.

The pro lifers argue that the clinics cannot offer impartial counselling. They know that they are the only organisations that are not involved with the provision of abortions that can afford to provide 'counselling' services.

The clinics are used by women who can't face having to wait weeks and often months on the NHS between the date they request an abortion and the date it's actually carried out. This wait means that women end up having surgical abortions (rather than tablets) because of bureacracy. They also avoid the increasing number of GPs who refuse to refer for abortions.

I don't think the fuckwit Tories have thought it through actually. It sounds like a free vote winner, but from the day it's enacted, the women who would otherwise have paid for an abortion will go through the NHS instead rather than face being shown baby clothes and horror shows. Overnight the already stretched NHS system will be overwhelmed.

Every budget is being cut, and the government is making a change that will shoot up NHS expenditure. And the extra volume of patients will lead to more delays and more abortions under GA. Which cost a lot more money.

I guess it's difficult. No-one in the world thinks abortion is a good thing, IYSWIM. It's always the lesser of two evils. Therefore, being too pro-abortion on the website is likely to attract them a lot of opposition from pro-lifers which they definitely dont need. Possibly they are just keeping their heads under the parapet?

No that's not the case. They have a national profile.

this is a view of the American situation.

I am an 'active' christian. I have not and do not believe I would choose an abortion for myself. But I don't have the right to choose for you, to sway your decision or influence what you do with your body. Unfortunately many of my fellow christians do not share that view. Abortion rights are precious and with the likes of Ms Dorries around believe me we will have to fight for those rights again and again.

Yes. They deliberately try to conceal the nature of the organisations. Why would someone who is pregnant and conflicted about what to do go to people who will only give them one answer - don't abort.

Re being in the news - this story isn't. I've looked on the BBC website and it's nowhere in sight here Now that is scary. Not under 'health' either.

NL That sounds about right.

This is the start of a slippery slope a la US

This woman makes me sick.

There is no question in my mind that this move is not about providing a better, more supportive or even independent service for women facing unplanned pregnancy. Dorries is clear about her objectives - to reduce the number of abortions that take place, full stop. The agenda here is to reduce access to safe, legal abortions by stealth.

The argument that pro-choice organisations that provide reproductive health services, including terminations, cannot provide independent counselling is hogwash. If this is the case, the same rule should apply to all procedures - that "independent" counselling from a totally separate provider must be given before fertility treatment, sterilisation or even things like cancer treatment can proceed.

Show me the evidence that Marie Stopes, BPAS or any other organisation that provides reproductive health services (including terminations) do not provide adequate advice, information and independent counselling on all the options available when facing unplanned pregnancy. It doesn't exist. However, those who wish ultimately to make abortion illegal trade on the myth of the profit-hungry abortionists who push vulnerable women into abortions they don't want. Insisting that the charities contracted to provide reproductive health services are too biased to do the job right is just a sub-set of this nasty myth.

This Mystery Shopper Study found that most of those so-called "independent pregnancy counselling providers" provided inaccurate information, used emotive language and clearly attempted to steer clients away from having abortions. It is just these organisations that will be in line for lucrative contracts from the NHS to provide counselling services for women before they will be allowed to have abortions.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear that they ask women to wait quite a while to have counselling, or ask them to come back for more counselling before proceeding to the next stage of the process. By delaying, they would hope that women will re-think their decision, both because of the later gestation but also because the procedure at a later stage is clinically more risky than an early medical or surgical abortion.

"I wouldn't be surprised to hear that they ask women to wait quite a while to have counselling, or ask them to come back for more counselling before proceeding to the next stage of the process. By delaying, they would hope that women will re-think their decision, both because of the later gestation but also because the procedure at a later stage is clinically more risky than an early medical or surgical abortion."

That's my fear as well.

The Care website lays a lot of stress on 'taking your time' as well. Bastards

The rate of terminations per 1000 women peaked in 2007 and has been dropping since then. Don't know how that translates into the no of terminations per year.

Hi all,

Back again, went to bed angry and still am.
What this will do is force women into the arms of the anti-choice 'charities'. This is because all the truly impartial counselling will be provided in the private sector, and vulnerable women on low incomes, who are more likely to have abortions, can't afford this. It's just another way of giving the evangelical antis more influence and it's wrong.

I wish I could say I was surprised that this government is conniving at this, but I'm not. Bastards. I just hope that it gets shot down rather than made into law, we really don't need this crap.

And I think it is unbelievably patronising to think that all women must want counselling and aren't able to make their own decisions, or that they choose to have abortions like they choose what chocolate to have at the supermarket. At every turn, women are presumed not to have the brains or the morals to make serious decisions about their own lives.

Going to spend some time on the feminism boards now to calm me down.

"And I think it is unbelievably patronising to think that all women must want counselling and aren't able to make their own decisions, or that they choose to have abortions like they choose what chocolate to have at the supermarket. At every turn, women are presumed not to have the brains or the morals to make serious decisions about their own lives."

:( Yep

So will this apply to all terminations or only to those on the nhs?

Am guessing if you can afford to go privately this won't be such an issue which is inredibly unfair.

Oh GOD this stuff is just so so scary.

mrscampbellblack I think these rules will apply only to those going privately. I assumed that the vast majority of abortions in the UK would be NHS but apparently a significant amount are carried out privately which surprised me but there you have it.

Anti-Choice Minority are being allowed to dictate policy

'' The battle for abortion rights in Britain has begun in earnest. This week, the small, vocal, venal group of Christian conservative lobbyists working in Westminster to roll back women's right to reproductive choice has won a victory. The Department of Health has confirmed that abortion clinics will no longer be allowed to offer counselling to women presenting with crisis pregnancies, who may instead have to go to biased religious counsellors if they wish to receive advice and information on abortion. This has been done without any debate, circumventing the parliamentary process ahead of next week's discussions on this and other anti-choice amendments to the Health and Social Care Bill.

Laurie Penny New Statesman.
My bolding.

The ONS website is being re-modelled atm so not poss to find percentage of NHS funded terminations wh are performed in the private sector vs in NHS clinics or funded & performed privately. IYSWIM I imagine that the majority of terminations are NHS funded in the private sector.

It's an uncommon usage of ''counselling'' meaning to give counsel outside of legal circles -ie advice and information, these days ? Counselling nowadays tends to imply some kind of therapeutic process.

M

I've emailed my MP. There's a mechanism for doing it easily on the Abortion Rights website.

i contacted my MP about this when it was first proposed, and he wrote back saying he totally agreed with Nadine Dorries. not sure where to go next.