20 months for false rape claim. any threads on this?

[mayorquimby]

title says it all really. Two women colluded in a false rape claim and got found out and have been sentenced to 20 months for perverting the course of justice.
Seems about the right sentence to me when you take into account the collusion of the two women as being an aggravating factor.
Just wondering what others thought.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2030471/Wicked-women-jailed-accusing-man-rape-showed-police-pictures-consensual-threesome.html

By 'these threads' I meant 'threads with the word 'rape' in the title'. This 'myth' I'm peddling about believing women - yes, I do. Do you believe that rapists lie? Rape victims are not disbelieved because other women make false accusations. Look it up. Hope that helps.

Worldgone, I get the feeling you'll believe what you want to believe, regardless of the reality or facts.

Can you imagine what it would be like if every time someone reported their car vandalised, their mobile stolen or that they'd been mugged, they have to consider that the person who did it isn't convicted that THEY might end up behind bars for making false claims? Sure, there are some folks who like about those things, often to claim falsely on their insurance. Yes, being falsely accused of being a vandal, a thief or a mugger could also wreck one's career, relationship, family and life. But no one is making a song and dance about that.

As Alice says, rape victims aren't disbelieved because other women make false accusations (any more than those who report vandalism, theft or muggings are disbelieved because some make false accusations of these things.)

Oh this thread is so funny

I know two men who have raped people, and others generally know about it.

No-one had "shunned" them, their jobs are fine, everything is rosy.

I don't see dire consequences for any of the footballers who regularly get accused of this type of crime. In fact a team recently decided to "stand by" a man who had been convicted of child sex offences and only changed their minds when there was outcry.

Am also WTF @ being accused of crimes like murder, terrorism, inciting racial hatred, embezzlement etc not having a "mud sticks" effect

oh sorry, I didn't realise there was an unwritten rule that threads with 'rape' in the title were only for those women who believe that all allegations of rape are true and that posters who thought otherwise, or who had some empathy for people who had been through the horror of false allegations, were not allowed to comment. Do accept my apologies, I'll head off back to threads where people are willing to accept that other people may have a different point of view. I'll be very careful not to slam the door on my way out. goes off to look up the female equivalent of misogynist

Laters then!

"they have to consider that the person who did it isn't convicted that THEY might end up behind bars for making false claims?"

Sorry but is this happening for rape cases? Is it widespread that a case or allegation of rape which doesn't result in a conviction for the accused is followed by a case against the alleged victim? I haven't heard of or noticed such a trend, so would welcome clarification or sources as to why this would be the case for rape trials.

There have been quite a lot of cases MQ where women who reported rape have ended up in prison and with quite a lot of them the cases (to an outsider) don't look that iron-cast.

this case recently was the most shocking, I think the woman was eventually released but I'm not sure whether her conviction still stands or was quashed.

Spider ....Are you saying you think having someone force their penis into you and violate you is as bad as gossip? Really?

And as for estimates, 40% rape cases that are 'taken' to Police go unreported, many don't get reported at all. Even if the more conservative estimate was accounted for it would still be less than 5 people convicted out of all rapes, reported rapes result in 1:20 convictions.

There is also research (which I don't have to hand) which shows that of the women who falsely report this crime, the majority of them are doing it for attention / have mental health issues, and do not accuse a specific person.

The case upthread is one - putting aside the questions about whether she lied or not - the fact is that if she did make it up she inflicted extremely serious injuries on herself, on her genitals and over her body. She had no previous mental health problems so this would surely represent a massive psychiatric episode? In which case wouldn't a mental health place be a more appropriate place for her than prison?

I don't get the public interest angle with a lot of these prosecutions, basically.

that case isn't based on a false allegation of rape though, and if i recall there was quite a large thread on it or at least an almost identical case.
She was jailed for making official statements to the police to pervert the course of justice, it had nothing to do with her initial claim of rape not ending up in a conviction and thus leading to her being prosecuted for a false allegation of rape, in a way which CRKIKI suggested was a unique pitfall for those who made allegations/complaints of rape as compared to victims of other crimes.
The same circumstances could have been applied to any alleged crime and probably would have.

False allegations, proven false allegations, have only come to light recently. Usually a man 'can't control himself because she was acting like a slapper', 'no wonder she was raped she was alone at night'......not because a few idiots try to get men convicted of crimes they didn't commit. Even in a recent case where an eleven year old girl was gang raped the story still told us of how her parents never knew where she was and she dressed and acted much old, as if that's why she got raped....not because the violent, disgusting men decided to repeatedly rape her.

Is it the same case as this thread is based on? Both women reported as 28 and almost identical circumstances so presume it is.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/1078392-FFS-Woman-jailed-for-8mths-after-retracting-rape-accusation

MQ she went to the police to report rape and ended up in prison.

For a woman who has been raped, all of these cases amount to the same. That there is a risk that you might be disbelieved and incarcerated.

It seems that when the authorities decide a woman is lying they pursue that with a lot more vigour than they do reports of rape. Cases where women say that from the off the police seemed to be trying to trip them up / catch them out / get them to admit they were making it up, rather than going out and looking for a rapist.

I would also be interested to know how long people go to prison for, for fabricating other types of crime, but I don't know how to find this out.

'Do you honestly believe that raping someone is no worse than lying about being raped?'
Yes and I say that as a victim of rape.

Wow.

Yes but not in a way that was anyway unique to the crime of rape.
If I went to the police to report assault or burglary and then at a later date made a statement with to the contrary of my earleir statement with the intention of hindering the police investigation and perverting the course of justice then I would be liable to similar treatment.
CRKIKI suggested that those who allege rape run a unique risk that if a conviction is not obtained then they are liable to be jailed for falsely reporting said rape. The case you highlighted in no way proves that because firstly she wasn't jailed for falsely reporting a rape and secondly the circumstances which lead to her being jailed would apply equally to any crime.
As I said, I'm unaware of any such trend or widespread occurence of women being jailed for falsely reproting a rape based purely on the fact that their allegations do not result in a conviction. That is not to say that I am ruling it out or denying it, merely that I would like proof to back up such a claim before I accept it.

because as it stands the statement was
"
Can you imagine what it would be like if every time someone reported their car vandalised, their mobile stolen or that they'd been mugged, they have to consider that the person who did it isn't convicted that THEY might end up behind bars for making false claims?"

and I don't see any evidence for this being the case for people reporting a rape more than for any other crime.

MQ if you were assaulted or burgled and later retracted that due to threats and intimidation from the person who had assaulted/burgled you and their cronies, do you really think you are the one who would end up in prison? I doubt it would pan out like that.

Normally when that sort of thing happens the people who threaten and intimidate are seen to be tampering with a witness/perverting the course of justice I think and get into trouble themselves.

I have read lots of cases of women going to prison after reporting a rape.

Some of them were definitely guilty, some of them it looks dodgy, and some of them shouldn't have been pursued at all.

Women read the papers and take this stuff in.

spiderpig8.....I don't believe that for a second.

The first one they made it up and got found out. They were wrong and deserve to be punished.

The second one was weird and if it wasn't true then she was mentally ill so ought to be treated not punished.

For those in the "I believe all woman who claim to be raped" camp you are just fantasising and denying reality. Some (perhaps the vast majority) will be telling the truth and some will be lying. That's how the real world works.

For those saying that being accused of rape is just an inconvenience it's hard to know what to say. Perhaps we could make up some kind of test. Put pictures of some nasty abuse on their computers and tell the police. Of course being innocent they will not suffer at all from that.

For women reading the newspapers, there are regular reports of women going to prison for accusing men of rape, the statistics on conviction and reporting rates are widely known, they know there is a widespread belief that women lie and / or "ask for it" and that the police sometimes buy into these attitudes (see reid and warboys).

The fact that these are all different things do not register as much as the general gist - which is that on balance not reporting rapes is the safest course of action. So many women don't report. That is not good.

"For those saying that being accused of rape is just an inconvenience it's hard to know what to say"

I didn't see that. I saw people saying that being falsely accused of rape was as bad as being raped.

"MQ if you were assaulted or burgled and later retracted that due to threats and intimidation from the person who had assaulted/burgled you and their cronies, do you really think you are the one who would end up in prison? I doubt it would pan out like that."

Once again she wasn't jailed for retracting the statement, she retracted her statement and was told the police would be continuing with their investigation. She then made a statement which she believed to be false with the intention of preventing the police investigation proceeding in a successful manner.
If I did the same with assault I may very well be subjected to the same treatment.

"I have read lots of cases of women going to prison after reporting a rape. "

And I have heard of very few cases where a reporting of rape has resulted in a prosecution for false reporting or perverting the course of justice purely by reason of a conviction not having been reached. I'm not saying that none have occurred, I am saying I haven't heard of them and that I have seen no evidence to suggest it is widespread or a regular occurence.

"Normally when that sort of thing happens the people who threaten and intimidate are seen to be tampering with a witness/perverting the course of justice I think and get into trouble themselves."

And as I said in the other thread I'm suprised that a defence of duress was not successfully raised but would need to know more facts to hazard a guess as to why it was not.