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Original poster

UN and Amnesty International warn of 'grave breach of human rights' about to take place in Essex

79 replies

QueenOfFeckingEverything · 27/08/2011 21:18

Dale Farm eviction set to go ahead next week

Its an ex fucking scrapyard for crying out loud. Hardly a rural idyll to be protected at all costs from development Hmm

Everyone needs somewere to live - councils don't provide sufficient sites, so these people have bought their own site, and yet still they are made to move on. As many as 110 children could now be made homeless.

OP posts:
mankyminks · 31/08/2011 15:00

But if faverolles is right in her post it wouldn't matter if it's brown/green/purple/orange or pink field you are not allowed to live there more than 28 days without permission and also the caravans/chalets would never be allowed in such numbers would they?

faverolles · 31/08/2011 15:06

That's what I thought Manky.
I live in NYorks though, which does seem to have ridiculously stringent planning laws, so it could be different for other areas.

GeneralCustardsHardHat · 31/08/2011 15:13

If the scrapyard was illegal then ownership of the land must be pretty sketchy, no? I would have thought if this had been going through the courts all this time both parties would be privvy to all information and yet the laws of the land found in favour of the council and local residents.

Also if these are temporary homes how have they got rights to education and how have they lived in them so long? You could argue they should prove the structures are of a temporary nature...it you were cruel enough.

conculainey · 31/08/2011 16:50

By the same token since the area has been deemed greenbelt why then have the other people who live in the same area not been told to vacate their homes as well and to remove any illegal contructions from their land. For some reason no one complained about a messy and very ungreen scrapyard which sounds to me to be a simple anti-traveller sitiuation using planning laws as an excuse.When these people do apply for planning permision which is a situation they were forced into by the goverment who have banned their nomadic life style they are rarely granted permission to build with a 90% fail rate so where can these people move to.
The scrap yard was completely legal and was used by the same local council for collecting abandoned and old cars and had been operating since the 1960s without complaint so was clearly NOT a greenfield site,the whole area was given greenfield status in 1982 which includes all the surrounding homes, shops and business and where building has continued constantly even though it is illegal, if the travellers homes are to be bulldozed then ALL the homes in the area should suffer the same fate, but then there is a different set of rules for non travellers it seems.

www.echo-news.co.uk/news/1065414.How_did_Dale_Farm_get_so_big_/

Original poster
QueenOfFeckingEverything · 31/08/2011 16:57

conculainey - what did you say to get deleted??? I didn't see anything untoward last time I looked Hmm

OP posts:
conculainey · 31/08/2011 17:11

What has been deleted?

conculainey · 31/08/2011 17:18

ah, just spotted one of my posts has gone.

onagar · 31/08/2011 17:24

The rest of us have to get planning permission. That is the law. If you break the law you are a criminal. Why are you wasting sympathy on criminals?

mankyminks · 31/08/2011 17:25

That's weird seem to remember that post as a normal answer to my question in which you said most of the site was concreted over already as it was a scrapyard. Definitely can't remember anything untoward.... Have you checked out what happened there conculainey?

onagar · 31/08/2011 17:27

On the bigger question of should we leave space everywhere for nomads we don't have the room. You will have to all stop having kids and put a stop to immigration. When the population has dropped far enough we can have proper common land again for anyone to use as they like.

mankyminks · 31/08/2011 17:28

Onagar nobody is wasting sympathy it's called a discussion which is an exchange of opinions. Can't speak for anyone else but I feel the travellers should leave unless they can convince me otherwise. Doesn't mean I don't want to listen though does it?

mankyminks · 31/08/2011 17:42

Just heard the travellers have lost their appeal.

thefirstMrsDeVere · 31/08/2011 17:59

onagar if you find my thread about what is happening in my neighbour's garden i think you will find that everybody doesnt have to get PP.

5 year old criminals?
Really?

hiddenhome · 31/08/2011 19:05

My dh isn't a traveller, but was subject to strict planning laws when he had some land in Sussex. People have to obey the law.

onagar · 31/08/2011 19:18

mankyminks, You are right - this thread is quite a mild discussion. It's just that I live relatively near them and I've been hearing all sorts though about how unfair it is and how wicked it is that they have to obey our laws.

I do think there should be room to live in different ways, but there just isn't.

thefirstMrsDeVere, I've seen the title of your thread, but not read it yet. If your neighbour is taking liberties they should be stopped too. It's hard living all crushed together and the only way to make it work is for people to be made to stick to rules.

A neighbour of mine where I used to live (not one I knew well) built a whole room on his house and then was forced to remove it again. I winced at what they must have cost him, but when I thought about it he must have known he needed permission and presumably thought that once it was done they'd have to accept it.

2old2beamum · 31/08/2011 20:54

Can Ijust ask one question? Where the fucking hell are they supposed to go? The110 children, the elderly, the sick. I thought we wera humane country. Following the crisis report this morning beware you middle class councillors and other anti's if you become homeless you will not be welcome either!

...............................................................................

WinterIsComing · 31/08/2011 21:06

I live in the same town and have seen people from this site in the supermarket. The behaviour of the children and the adults is deplorable. Drunken, swearing, stealing, violent; you name it. It became so difficult that my family could no longer shop there. I have seen children as young as five behaving this way Mrs DV but I would be loathe to call them criminals because the criminality IMO is the doing of the people raising them (or not)

I'm all for travellers rights. Absolutely. Rights for all people. But with rights come responsibilities. And the majority of people who are responsible deserve to be protected from those who are not.

And as someone mentioned on the other thread, the children enter school with completely different attitudes to attendance and education, to put it mildly. I have former colleagues who have worked in the school.

And the people have been offered homes.

onagar · 31/08/2011 21:34

2old2beamum, wherever they were before they illegally went there. They knew they were not allowed to be there, but they were relying on people saying "oh but what about the children" to get their own way and break the law.

But in any case they have been offered homes by the council. They have been breaking the law for about 10 years and the reason they got away with it for so long is that we were being reasonable.

They are now saying they will resist the bailiffs and that if there is any violence the bailiffs will have started it. I'd call that a threat and I think many will find themselves accommodated in police stations and prisons.

cornsilksi · 31/08/2011 21:40

'And as someone mentioned on the other thread, the children enter school with completely different attitudes to attendance and education, to put it mildly. I have former colleagues who have worked in the school.'
...and your colleagues are gossiping about the traveller children in their care? Nice.

WinterIsComing · 31/08/2011 21:53

So teachers cannot share experiences when attending professional development courses? And cannot discuss the implications of teaching children from the travelling community for training purposes?

Best not mention the abused children we need to safeguard then. They're vulnerable you know and it would be gossiping. Hmm

mankyminks · 31/08/2011 23:25

Onagar,am with you on that one. They've lived there on borrowed time for the last 10 years and they knew it. Don't go playing the poorly children,elderly and sickly card here now,they have had more than long enough to sort that out.

They've lost their last court case today so that means the game is over. Hold your heads high and move on.

The bailiffs are people with families too and it angers me they have to fear for their safety once they go in there. They should do all they can to keep the peace but believe me it won't take much more than a breath blown in the wrong direction for things to kick off and turn nasty.
Do not start anything but you are fully entitled to defend yourself is the advice I would be giving them.

And what's with the tree huggers in camp constant?? They haven't got a clue what they are talking about and looked really quite stupid when interviewed on BBC news this evening.

buggerlugs82 · 03/09/2011 18:31

This reply has been withdrawn

This post has been withdrawn due to privacy concerns.

lachesis · 03/09/2011 18:44

I need a place to live, too. But you know, I don't feel like paying rent or council tax. So sod it. I'm going to go squat, or buy a piece of greenbelt land and just park up on it. Sod the law, it's a breech of my human rights to throw me off.

CRIKRI · 04/09/2011 23:54

Has anyone seen this article Jewish Backing for Dale Farm Travellers and this interesting site linked off the article - What If They'd Said Jew?" Frightening and depressing. :(